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GNOME 42 Alpha Released With A Lot Of GTK4 Porting, Other Improvements

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  • #41
    Originally posted by birdie View Post

    I want this I won't get it.
    I think that looks hideous, and that a taskbar containing a list of application windows is a relic that really needs to be dropped one day.

    When I do stuff on my computer, there are more than 10 application windows running. That essentially makes the window list in the taskbar useless since the list gets shortened to a point where their titles are all truncated, leaving only the window icon. Presenting all windows in a grid and then choosing the desired window to work with makes a lot more sense. Even on Windows i don't use the taskbar anymore for window and application management; it's Win + tab all the way.

    Apple and Microsoft and Gnome knew this. That's why they switched over to using icons exclusively for window and application management and implemented a 'present windows' grid for people who prefer to keep their hands on the keyboard. That's also why Plasma eventually went the same way by adding a window grid desktop effect in Plasma 4 and then offering an icon-only taskbar option in Plasma 5.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by White Wolf View Post
      Just use Budgie, at TT BuddiesOfBudgie perfect mix between Gnome and KDE.
      More like a mix between Gnome, Unity and Pantheon.
      But that's the beauty of it, you can get basically any layout out of it. It's very versatile, contrary to Gnome.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by Sonadow View Post

        I think that looks hideous, and that a taskbar containing a list of application windows is a relic that really needs to be dropped one day.

        When I do stuff on my computer, there are more than 10 application windows running. That essentially makes the window list in the taskbar useless since the list gets shortened to a point where their titles are all truncated, leaving only the window icon. Presenting all windows in a grid and then choosing the desired window to work with makes a lot more sense. Even on Windows i don't use the taskbar anymore for window and application management; it's Win + tab all the way.

        Apple and Microsoft and Gnome knew this. That's why they switched over to using icons exclusively for window and application management and implemented a 'present windows' grid for people who prefer to keep their hands on the keyboard. That's also why Plasma eventually went the same way by adding a window grid desktop effect in Plasma 4 and then offering an icon-only taskbar option in Plasma 5.
        Meh.
        3-fingers swipe up (your Win+Tab) is very slow to be triggered on Windows (contrary to Gnome), and it's really difficult to find the window you're looking for when you have 7 word documents, 3 Excel, 5 Outlook e-mails open, 2-3 file explorers, a calculator, the snipping tool, etc... in 2-3 workspaces. Spotting one Word document among all windows is no fun, believe me. Just as in Gnome. I have 18 windows open when calling the windows grid of my Windows work laptop, and it's just the left screen (of 2) of a single workspace (of 3). I'd say around 40 overall on 3 virtual workspaces x 2 screens.
        An instantaneously recognizable app icon in the doc can't be beaten to look for a specific app (and instances) from my experience. And I really have tried.
        I find that having the taskbar (on the left, Unity style) makes me switch faster between apps and way faster between instances of apps, even if I have to travel slightly with the touchpad, yes. But it's close to the border so a fast imprecise big throw of a gesture is enough.

        Which is why I disagree that it makes more sense. It makes my workflow less efficient in the end to use the windows grid, as cool as it looks and as much as I'd want it to work.
        The same goes with Gnome, I usually switch faster with dash-to-dock than with the overview depending on how far my current focused window is from the dock as the 3-fingers swipe down might be better if only a few windows are open and to pick from on the opposite screen (the one without the dock).

        In any case, swiping/tapping on a touchpad may compete with a dock, but at this point the keyboard shortcuts (super or win+tab) really can't compete and are more of a hindrance.
        Last edited by Mez'; 19 January 2022, 06:18 AM.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by pal666 View Post
          i see a correlation between groups of gnome haters and braindead conspiracy theorists
          I see a correlation between groups of gnome fanboys and the inability to think for oneself.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by caligula View Post

            I kind of doubt Plasma is as light as XFCE. XFCE + all the userspace and kernel software (even systemd based) requires around 250-300 MB of RAM. I don't have the exact numbers for KDE Plasma, but I'm sure it's closer to 1000 MB.
            Hm, close, 803,5 MiB:

            Code:
            top - 22:10:51 up 3 min, 1 user, load average: 0,04, 0,05, 0,02
            Tasks: 346 total, 1 running, 345 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
            %Cpu(s): 0,0 us, 0,0 sy, 0,0 ni, 99,9 id, 0,0 wa, 0,0 hi, 0,0 si, 0,0 st
            MiB Mem : 31469,9 total, 29873,7 free, 803,5 used, 792,8 buff/cache
            MiB Swap: 15735,0 total, 15735,0 free, 0,0 used. 30265,7 avail Mem
            Although that's Plasma with Wayland, so an additional X-Server is running in the background and probably some other stuff installed by me (e.g. KDE Connect, the NVIDIA driver blob and other convenience), so it's very possible to lower it somewhat more. Haven't looked what it needs with X11 only.
            Last edited by reba; 19 January 2022, 05:18 PM.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by SSJBurger View Post

              Yeah I also didn't believe it until I tested it out myself. But I would say they are within margin of error of each other right now.. With KDE feeling a bit smoother for my pc.
              Ok so you're referring to (smooth) performance. That might be true. But it will use more memory, see this:

              Originally posted by reba View Post

              Hm, close, 803,5 MiB:

              Although that's Plasma with Wayland, so an additional X-Server is running in the background and probably some other stuff installed by me (e.g. KDE Connect, the NVIDIA driver blob and other convenience), so it's very possible to lower it somewhat more. Haven't looked what it needs with X11 only.
              Right. So that's pretty close to what I got with GNOME 41 (~605 MB). I think GDM doesn't leave any additional X server running. I also used a system with Intel GPU.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by Mez' View Post
                I see a correlation between groups of gnome fanboys and the inability to think for oneself.
                Except what pal666 said is actually true.

                That's about Wayland but all of the most active anti-Wayland people in that thread are pushing a conspiracy theory about Wayland, Gnome, and Redhat trying to take over Linux. The specifics vary from person to person. Our own Monsterovich and birdie even make appearances.

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by caligula View Post

                  Ok so you're referring to (smooth) performance. That might be true. But it will use more memory, see this:



                  Right. So that's pretty close to what I got with GNOME 41 (~605 MB). I think GDM doesn't leave any additional X server running. I also used a system with Intel GPU.
                  This is from a Konsole running top on Plasma with SDDM/X11 in a VirtualBox VM: 534,9 MiB

                  Code:
                  top - 08:58:47 up 0 min, 1 user, load average: 0,00, 0,00, 0,00
                  Tasks: 211 total, 1 running, 210 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
                  %Cpu(s): 0,2 us, 0,2 sy, 0,0 ni, 99,6 id, 0,0 wa, 0,0 hi, 0,0 si, 0,0 st
                  MiB Mem : 7957,9 total, 6893,3 free, 534,9 used, 529,7 buff/cache
                  MiB Swap: 3978,9 total, 3978,9 free, 0,0 used. 7185,3 avail Mem
                  Background tasks are the VBox Drivers and again other stuff (KDE Connect, WiFi, Bluetooth, CUPS printer driver, ...).

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