KDE Gets A 2022 Roadmap - Plasma Wayland To Shine, Updated Breeze Icons

[Melcar]

Wayland is still too unstable for me on KDE Plasma. I mean, I can use it, but it often fails/crashes applications and it gets annoying. No real rush to adopt it fully, since it offers nothing for me personally over what X does already.

[devsk]

@ngraham Is there a plan to address any of these: https://community.kde.org/Plasma/Wayland_Showstoppers

Without these, I don't see myself using wayland as daily driver anytime soon.

[oiaohm]

This is exactly why I have put off switching to wayland for so long, and would have continued to do so if not forced into it by new hardware where Xorg is just as bad.

It strikes me as insane that not only are the robustness patches taking so long to trickle down, but that they weren't written 10 years ago.

There is a few points. The idea of robustness that the application can out live the server/compositor first appears for X11 in the 1980s. So Xorg on modern hardware being bad should not be a problem if robustness had been done in the 1980s as well.

There has been a on going problem of implementing features ahead of implementing robustness in the graphical space on Linux/Unix/BSD.

[ⲣⲂaggins]

[523838.181780] kwin_wayland[56402]: segfault at 440000009c ip 000000440000009c sp 00007ffd56fe4038 error 14 in kwin_wayland[55637370b000+28000]

Well, f**k. That didn't take long. Not even been using it a week.

Trying to get serious work done under a wayland compositor is like placing it below a very large axe suspended from the ceiling by a frayed thread that could snap at any moment. The threat of complete destruction is looming constantly.

I could forgive this if wayland were still in its early stages, but it's not, in fact at this point it's now 75% the age of the X.org server, and still less reliable than both it and Windows 98 combined.

This is exactly why I have put off switching to wayland for so long, and would have continued to do so if not forced into it by new hardware where Xorg is just as bad.

It strikes me as insane that not only are the robustness patches taking so long to trickle down, but that they weren't written 10 years ago.

[digitaltrails]

For comparison, I have mouse and keyboard freeze too using X when the memory almost full (i5 8500T/ 16GB/ Arch/ Plasma X)

Under either wayland or X11, stress-ng --cpu 8 doesn't seem to have much impact on responsiveness (Kwin_wayland, Kwin_X11 and Nvidia proprietary drivers). I suppose CPU-burning could have an effect on temperature governed CPU's, GPU-drivers may also react differently, plus a different kind of CPU load might yield different results. I often have the problem that something is burning CPU without my noticing.

On the other hand, pushing memory consumption out to the limit will rapidly bring any typically configured Linux desktop to its knees no matter what window system it is or isn't running. For example, if I run stress-ng --brk 1, I have less than a minute to act to prevent the desktop from becoming unresponsive on both of Wayland and X11 (eventually the Out-Of-Memory killer kicks in).

I think there's room for the desktop to assist with preventing desktop applications from causing unusable levels of desktop responsiveness. Something like: notify the user, allow the user to intervene before things get out of hand. I have experimented with this approach myself (https://github.com/digitaltrails/procno).

[edoantonioco]

Until nvidia prime doesnt support wayland, it will never replace x11

[t.s.]

Tried Wayland out (again). Running smooth and well... up until I do something that strains all CPU cores to 100%. When that happens, the mouse and keyboard start to lag and freeze.

Same showstopper that I experienced two years ago. Still not fixed.

To be fair, it happens regardless if I use Gnome or KDE or distro, so I can't blame the KDE team for this.

For comparison, I have mouse and keyboard freeze too using X when the memory almost full (i5 8500T/ 16GB/ Arch/ Plasma X)

[Beherit]

Tried Wayland out (again). Running smooth and well... up until I do something that strains all CPU cores to 100%. When that happens, the mouse and keyboard start to lag and freeze.

Same showstopper that I experienced two years ago. Still not fixed.

To be fair, it happens regardless if I use Gnome or KDE or distro, so I can't blame the KDE team for this.

[oiaohm]

Who said "major selling points" were ever accurate?!

In fact I've been getting unpredictable, regular X server crashes on my new machine. Rather than bother investigating, I just switched to wayland for good. Fortunately at around the same time their wayland session became usable as a daily driver.

Yes this is the lack of X11 server robustness.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdnRwPBFBk Yes everything in the addressing wayland server robustness could be applied just as equally to the X11 protocol and the X11 server it self.

That so call X11 Major selling point the reality is its not accurate and was known not Accurate in the 1980s when the first attempts at X11 server robustness was done that xpra is a descendant of. So 30 to 40 years latter of a known problem.

What would you call a major selling point that has been known incorrect for 30+ years. Fraud. deception.... maybe.

Robustness is something we should want out our desktop solution. Be you using X11 bare metal or Wayland both cases you should be wanting robustness work to be done and completed.

The Linux desktop has not made it way into particular markets due to the lack of robustness.

[Frenzie]

KDE has a version of xkill built into the window manager, triggered by Ctrl+Alt+Esc, that works on wayland.

Thanks! That's very good to know. I'd searched for Wayland xkill alternative and all results I found said it didn't exist.