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KDE Gets A 2022 Roadmap - Plasma Wayland To Shine, Updated Breeze Icons

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  • #41
    Originally posted by Frenzie View Post

    There's also the corollary that lack of xkill makes life a lot harder. (Although perhaps ironically, in X I don't need it… I've only felt the need in Wayland.)
    Well a halfway decent compositor will allow you to get the PID for each window so you can write a script for each compositor that does that for you ....
    I am currently running wayland and I must say that there isn't really anything from an end-user perspective that would be any better. In fact, I just miss all the X tools and due to the immaturity of the software and the resulting bugs, it feels like a step 20 years back.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

      You are correct that should not be the case. Do open a file a bug. https://bugs.kde.org/
      I did post once example in the kde forums ( https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=173641 ). I hadn't bothered raising a bug because tumbleweed and KDE move along so quickly. I tend to wait a bit and see if the problem persists through multiple release cycles.
      Last edited by digitaltrails; 04 January 2022, 03:32 PM. Reason: better choice of words

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      • #43
        Originally posted by Frenzie View Post

        There's also the corollary that lack of xkill makes life a lot harder. (Although perhaps ironically, in X I don't need it… I've only felt the need in Wayland.)
        KDE has a version of xkill built into the window manager, triggered by Ctrl+Alt+Esc, that works on wayland.
        Last edited by ⲣⲂaggins; 04 January 2022, 05:05 PM.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
          Sorry X11 x.org server still crashes on people taken down the complete session..
          https://forums.opensuse.org/showthre...-latest-update
          Lots of strange and warped ways.
          Who said "major selling points" were ever accurate?!

          In fact I've been getting unpredictable, regular X server crashes on my new machine. Rather than bother investigating, I just switched to wayland for good. Fortunately at around the same time their wayland session became usable as a daily driver.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by ⲣⲂaggins View Post

            KDE has a version of xkill built into the window manager, triggered by Ctrl+Alt+Esc, that works on wayland.
            Thanks! That's very good to know. I'd searched for Wayland xkill alternative and all results I found said it didn't exist.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by ⲣⲂaggins View Post
              Who said "major selling points" were ever accurate?!

              In fact I've been getting unpredictable, regular X server crashes on my new machine. Rather than bother investigating, I just switched to wayland for good. Fortunately at around the same time their wayland session became usable as a daily driver.
              Yes this is the lack of X11 server robustness.

              https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdnRwPBFBk Yes everything in the addressing wayland server robustness could be applied just as equally to the X11 protocol and the X11 server it self.

              That so call X11 Major selling point the reality is its not accurate and was known not Accurate in the 1980s when the first attempts at X11 server robustness was done that xpra is a descendant of. So 30 to 40 years latter of a known problem.

              What would you call a major selling point that has been known incorrect for 30+ years. Fraud. deception.... maybe.

              Robustness is something we should want out our desktop solution. Be you using X11 bare metal or Wayland both cases you should be wanting robustness work to be done and completed.

              The Linux desktop has not made it way into particular markets due to the lack of robustness.

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              • #47
                Tried Wayland out (again). Running smooth and well... up until I do something that strains all CPU cores to 100%. When that happens, the mouse and keyboard start to lag and freeze.

                Same showstopper that I experienced two years ago. Still not fixed.

                To be fair, it happens regardless if I use Gnome or KDE or distro, so I can't blame the KDE team for this.

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by Beherit View Post
                  Tried Wayland out (again). Running smooth and well... up until I do something that strains all CPU cores to 100%. When that happens, the mouse and keyboard start to lag and freeze.

                  Same showstopper that I experienced two years ago. Still not fixed.

                  To be fair, it happens regardless if I use Gnome or KDE or distro, so I can't blame the KDE team for this.
                  For comparison, I have mouse and keyboard freeze too using X when the memory almost full (i5 8500T/ 16GB/ Arch/ Plasma X)

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                  • #49
                    Until nvidia prime doesnt support wayland, it will never replace x11

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by t.s. View Post
                      For comparison, I have mouse and keyboard freeze too using X when the memory almost full (i5 8500T/ 16GB/ Arch/ Plasma X)
                      Under either wayland or X11, stress-ng --cpu 8 doesn't seem to have much impact on responsiveness (Kwin_wayland, Kwin_X11 and Nvidia proprietary drivers). I suppose CPU-burning could have an effect on temperature governed CPU's, GPU-drivers may also react differently, plus a different kind of CPU load might yield different results. I often have the problem that something is burning CPU without my noticing.

                      On the other hand, pushing memory consumption out to the limit will rapidly bring any typically configured Linux desktop to its knees no matter what window system it is or isn't running. For example, if I run stress-ng --brk 1, I have less than a minute to act to prevent the desktop from becoming unresponsive on both of Wayland and X11 (eventually the Out-Of-Memory killer kicks in).

                      I think there's room for the desktop to assist with preventing desktop applications from causing unusable levels of desktop responsiveness. Something like: notify the user, allow the user to intervene before things get out of hand. I have experimented with this approach myself (https://github.com/digitaltrails/procno).

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