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Libadwaita 1.0 Released For Kicking Off A New Year Of GNOME App Development

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  • #31
    Finally a platform style for a huge desktop. This was so needed. Thanks to everyone involved here.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by ssokolow View Post

      ...or, we could just recognize that GTK stopped being anything but "the toolkit for GNOME's weird/non-standard take on desktop look and feel" with the 3.x line, and that its developer documentation sucks and the IRC/etc. support has bad attitude and switch over to Qt, like the LXDE devs and the Audacious Media Player devs and the Subsurface devs and so on.

      GNOME has always had an authoritarian bent, with their "This should be impossible because it might confuse grandma to have it accessible by default" design and their cargo cult copying of superficial macOS design elements without understanding the principles they're supposed to be optimizing for. This has just accelerated that. (I haven't been around since the beginning, but it was already in full swing back when I came in during the 2.x era.)
      Isn't libadwaita doing the opposite of this, i.e splitting out the gnome HIG specific elements of GTK out into their own library? This will allow non-Gnome DE's to use GTK but make their own distro-specific elements. One could imagine a libelementary and a libsolus while still using GTK and all the ecosystem benefits that come along with that. This will finally allow GTK to be a truly neutral GUI toolkit as opposed to "Gnome-Tool-Kit".

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      • #33
        "More modern" - every time you see this, you know someone's just making excuses for why it is that their new version of something has broken compatibility, removed functionality, or both.

        It amazes me how GNOME is *still* pushing their Windows 8 shitty tablet UI for something that's entirely used on desktops. Even MS got the hint eventually.

        There's certainly value in "standard theming tools", but anything coming from a group as opposed to user choice and as hostile to disabled users as GNOME is almost certainly not going to be it.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by pumpkinpal View Post
          This will allow non-Gnome DE's to use GTK but make their own distro-specific elements. One could imagine a libelementary and a libsolus while still using GTK and all the ecosystem benefits that come along with that. This will finally allow GTK to be a truly neutral GUI toolkit as opposed to "Gnome-Tool-Kit".
          That's a nice vision, but I don't see it coming to pass: that's what GTK2 was, and the entire point of GTK3 and GTK4 is to move further *away* from that idea, not towards it.

          Control over GTK is the only thing that makes GNOME relevant, and the whole POINT of GTK from their perspective is that it IS "their" toolkit. Functionality that they don't want/use in GNOME Shell itself has repeatedly been removed specifically BECAUSE it was allowing other DEs to deviate from the GNOME "vision" of what a UI should be.

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          • #35
            I'm going to make a wild guess and say that people are using different definitions for "users" here.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by ssokolow View Post

              I'm a happy KDE user, so I haven't been following what Solus does. I mainly know of that post because I'm also a Rust developer and it was noteworthy for it to list Rust compatibility so high in their decision-making.
              The (un?)surprising thing here is that gnome probably has the best most complete rust bindings out there.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by secretlynotarobot View Post

                You can assert that this is their goal all day, but the DTMA people are frequently cited to legitimize GNOMEs decision to remove user theming for apps.
                Try gnome text editor from Nightly. Or even the mentioned contrast and Apostrophe apps with their gtk4 ports.

                In gnome-text-editor preferences you will probably find one of the most complete retheming options out there - it wont break no matter if you choose light and dark mode. That is what libadwaita brings to the table and is also the foundation to the formal recoloring API that is in development.

                (The blog also pointed out how turning the colours of a theme into named colours and making that API assists in allowing theming. But I guess rants by random people who dont care or want to know what is happening hold greater weight.)

                EDIT - if you dont want to try the gnome-nightly flatpak, you can read about gnome-text-editor recoloring here: https://blogs.gnome.org/chergert/202...or-happenings/
                Last edited by You-; 31 December 2021, 11:21 PM.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by arQon View Post

                  That's a nice vision, but I don't see it coming to pass: that's what GTK2 was, and the entire point of GTK3 and GTK4 is to move further *away* from that idea, not towards it.
                  libelementary is called Granite: https://github.com/elementary/granite
                  XFCE's version is called libxfce4UI: https://docs.xfce.org/xfce/libxfce4ui/start

                  The plan from elementary seems to be for granite to use libadwaita as a dependency.

                  So its not about coming to pass - it has already happened. Gnome is late to this game, but it was what groups like Solus requested - to not put gnome only widgets into GTK.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by You- View Post

                    Try gnome text editor from Nightly. Or even the mentioned contrast and Apostrophe apps with their gtk4 ports.

                    In gnome-text-editor preferences you will probably find one of the most complete retheming options out there - it wont break no matter if you choose light and dark mode. That is what libadwaita brings to the table and is also the foundation to the formal recoloring API that is in development.

                    (The blog also pointed out how turning the colours of a theme into named colours and making that API assists in allowing theming. But I guess rants by random people who dont care or want to know what is happening hold greater weight.)

                    EDIT - if you dont want to try the gnome-nightly flatpak, you can read about gnome-text-editor recoloring here: https://blogs.gnome.org/chergert/202...or-happenings/
                    This doesn't really address my point and I am aware of the development thus far. I use apostrophe on a daily basis. Gnome text editor (almost called it geddit- doh!) looks great and I think it's hard to disagree that this would be great if it could be implemented system wide. I am not sure how this will materialize as I was under the impression that libadwaita will be "totally 100% never changing API stable". Maybe this is not the case any more but this does defeat the purpose of cutting off a proper "theming" API.

                    I theme DTMA apps because all of my tool kit looking similar is an essential part of my workflow, and I'll admit that other GNOME HIGs make good apps. I find inconsistencies like that hard to ignore- even the unrounded gtk3 apps bugged me enough to patch my mutter to ignore window rounding. I don't like the adwaita click inputs (buttons, toggles, etc), so recoloring doesn't really do it for me. I like libadwaita and the apps it produces. I just wish that DTMA wasn't used as a semi-autonomous ideological crutch by the GNOME foundation to justify the continuing demonization of theming by users and downstreams.

                    This won't affect me because I'm going to patch out anything I find objectionable in my libadwaita, I guess I'll just build programs only available from flatpak, or not update anything until Debian runs out of GNOME 40 support. That's the magic of OSS (nothin free- or at least bazaar in GNOME). If you care enough, you can just do it yourself. If only there was a distro that was gutsy enough to do it for their release. I don't want the GNOME ideological baggage just as much as I don't want mozzilas trackers.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by You- View Post

                      The (un?)surprising thing here is that gnome probably has the best most complete rust bindings out there.
                      Yes, because, while their GUI design decisions may be questionable, they definitely know their IDL. GObject Introspection is a solid system and I really wish QWidget APIs were exposed via it.
                      Last edited by ssokolow; 01 January 2022, 02:34 AM.

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