Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

A Call For KDE To Fully Embrace Simplicity By Default, Appeal To More Novice Users

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #71
    Originally posted by andrebrait View Post

    I know what the names mean. It doesn't change the fact a newbie would have no idea what the hell they're looking at when they search for a text editor and find 4 different apps, all named after someone's deceased pet or fun acronyms.

    GNOME just calls Gedit a Text Editor. Works fine for regular folk if you ask me.

    Those are some of the perks having 99% of the PC market share has.

    Unless I'm mistaken, we're talking about making it more usable for new users, not trying to do the same thing Microsoft could afford to do ~30 years ago.
    By default the KDE application menu gives both the name of the program and a description of what it does. Next to the name Kate it reads "advanced text editor". I think this is generally a better solution to the problem because it also makes things easier for applications that the KDE folks don't have control of the name. Incidentally when you start typing the name of an application it also searches the description so starting to type "text" will show Kate towards the top of the list of options telling you that it is indeed an advanced text editor. If I were going improve on the system I would add a field to the desktop file for search terms, with a bunch of synonyms that somebody might search for if they wanted to use that particular application.
    Last edited by kayosiii; 01 December 2021, 04:05 AM.

    Comment


    • #72
      Originally posted by andrebrait View Post

      I know what the names mean. It doesn't change the fact a newbie would have no idea what the hell they're looking at when they search for a text editor and find 4 different apps, all named after someone's deceased pet or fun acronyms.

      GNOME just calls Gedit a Text Editor. Works fine for regular folk if you ask me.

      Those are some of the perks having 99% of the PC market share has.

      Unless I'm mistaken, we're talking about making it more usable for new users, not trying to do the same thing Microsoft could afford to do ~30 years ago.
      To be entirely blunt: this is a perfect example of insulting the intelligence of the common user. Not only can they learn proper nouns rather than generic nouns, but if you search for generic nouns in kicker or the search bar of the start menu you will get the results you're looking for (admittedly in a few cases missing appropriate synonyms). If someone is just perusing their start menu then they can figure it out by category and icon and a little bit of exploration.

      Nobody with even half a brain is getting messed up over "bad names" or names that have no connection or meaning to the end product which... actually are most of the names of all products on the market. By naming all the text editors Text Editor you're actually being a total asshole because now you've made it more difficult for a user to find the one they actually want to use if they have multiple installed (ex: Kwrite vs Kate)

      Comment


      • #73
        Originally posted by reba View Post

        FWIW I tried KDE Neon in a VM several months ago and found it lacking and fragile from an OS-perspective.
        As a showcase for Plasma it's okay, although I prefer the default settings set by Debian, which also excels as an OS, over those set by Neon.
        Therefore I wouldn't recommend using KDE Neon as a daily driver but just to have a peek with an asterisk to it.
        I tried KDE on Debian afterwards, and this didn't feel as clean/modern as the version on KDE Neon, but maybe you have used an older version. Either way, the only DE I would consider for production usage would be GNOME, XFCE,Cinnamon and Pantheon. LXQT has made strides the last few years, and that is potentially a candidate as well.

        Comment


        • #74
          Originally posted by andrebrait View Post

          Ps.: There's nothing wrong with targeting a specific workflow or audience, but if that's enthusiasts, don't be shocked to have a low adoption rate among the common folk.
          It isn't Windows, that's the problem common folk have.

          Comment


          • #75
            Originally posted by xhustler View Post

            I partially agree with your sentiments. On the other hand - KDE (or any DE for that matter) is a tool used to get work done. If it cannot do that as per user's requirements, then it will end up like the tons of powerful open source softwares with barely any users. As Nate mentions, KDE's user base can grow significantly with strategically targeted changes to make it appeal to non-techies.
            How many times have you had to help out non-techies with Windows problems, never mind Linux based desktop DEs ? It's what the Great Unwashed are used to, they cry and get frightened when Microsoft changes something very simple on them.

            Comment


            • #76
              Originally posted by scirocco View Post
              Well kde is for power users, they need to make some radical changes for it to be beginner friendly, for ex making windows key actually open the menu like most people expect to begin with.
              Linux 101, it isn't Windows. If you want Windows then Microsoft is happy to sell you a copy.

              Comment


              • #77
                Well, the plan sounds OK but please KDE address the real bugs that destroy a stable desktop.
                Why is crashing Dolphin so simple? A slow network connection is enough to get it down :-( The same for Plasma and the panel. Just disconnect the network or switch to a bad network connection. Enjoy a frozen desktop or some crashes :-( Actually these kind of bugs seem to be everywhere in KDE applications, they work as long as everything is perfect but fail miserably when something goes wrong.
                But I'm still a KDE user somehow, maybe because I like to suffer :-)

                Comment


                • #78
                  Originally posted by R41N3R View Post
                  Well, the plan sounds OK but please KDE address the real bugs that destroy a stable desktop.
                  Why is crashing Dolphin so simple? A slow network connection is enough to get it down :-( The same for Plasma and the panel. Just disconnect the network or switch to a bad network connection. Enjoy a frozen desktop or some crashes :-( Actually these kind of bugs seem to be everywhere in KDE applications, they work as long as everything is perfect but fail miserably when something goes wrong.
                  But I'm still a KDE user somehow, maybe because I like to suffer :-)
                  The fastest way to reduce bugs would be to reduce complexity - reduce the amount of features and components to maintain. That of course, won't happen anytime soon. They COULD however do some polling/research on what features are rarely used.

                  Comment


                  • #79
                    Usual opinions from the Linux elitists, who hate the 98 per cent of computer users. Most Linux system creators know that the bulk of the 98% users like GUI, not the text books demanded by the CLI Linux oldies.

                    Appealing to waiting crowds means having any desktop environment that will not frighten the waiting crowds. No textbooks, no manuals needed. That is why Xerox invented WIMP, which the old Unix specialists do not like.

                    KDE Plasma is really the most flexible desktop environment ever. However, like most (all?) similar environments, the usual configurations cannot be saved for each user. These end-user settings cannot follow the end-user, as the person moves from operating system to another system, or from one terminal or presets, to another.

                    KDE currently had no easy undo to any previous settings. This is desperately needed.

                    The novice friendly operating systems offer the main standard and very predictable defaults. KDE could also do this, by design. These standard defaults are a choice of Microsoft Windows, Apple emulations, or other emulations. KDE can easily offer these standard themes, as a user choice, desirable as required, without changing other settings, such as choice of applications, choice of hardware that might be set for the user or the environment.

                    Gnome differs from KDE currently, because it is trying the very newest, most installed areas of Linux. Wayland. BTRFS. Snap, Tablet, rather than WIMP, etc.

                    The KDE purists like avoiding GTK applications like gparted. Instead these purists prefer qt applications, despite the inferiority to the surrendering GTK applications.

                    If KDE dares to try to be attractive to non-geeks, that will make it much easier for the waiting ever users. If Linux dares to become end user friendly, then there succession writers might look at the larger, worthwhile marketplace.

                    Like Unix, hopefully Linux will become mature enough for the public. Open source Android, open source Chromium are the main Linux survivors, for the general public. Both are not able to defeat either Apple not Microsoft. Perhaps KDE and Linux might be able to do this?

                    Comment


                    • #80
                      Originally posted by gregzeng View Post
                      Usual opinions from the Linux elitists, who hate the 98 per cent of computer users. Most Linux system creators know that the bulk of the 98% users like GUI, not the text books demanded by the CLI Linux oldies.

                      Appealing to waiting crowds means having any desktop environment that will not frighten the waiting crowds. No textbooks, no manuals needed. That is why Xerox invented WIMP, which the old Unix specialists do not like.

                      KDE Plasma is really the most flexible desktop environment ever. However, like most (all?) similar environments, the usual configurations cannot be saved for each user. These end-user settings cannot follow the end-user, as the person moves from operating system to another system, or from one terminal or presets, to another.

                      KDE currently had no easy undo to any previous settings. This is desperately needed.

                      The novice friendly operating systems offer the main standard and very predictable defaults. KDE could also do this, by design. These standard defaults are a choice of Microsoft Windows, Apple emulations, or other emulations. KDE can easily offer these standard themes, as a user choice, desirable as required, without changing other settings, such as choice of applications, choice of hardware that might be set for the user or the environment.

                      Gnome differs from KDE currently, because it is trying the very newest, most installed areas of Linux. Wayland. BTRFS. Snap, Tablet, rather than WIMP, etc.

                      The KDE purists like avoiding GTK applications like gparted. Instead these purists prefer qt applications, despite the inferiority to the surrendering GTK applications.

                      If KDE dares to try to be attractive to non-geeks, that will make it much easier for the waiting ever users. If Linux dares to become end user friendly, then there succession writers might look at the larger, worthwhile marketplace.

                      Like Unix, hopefully Linux will become mature enough for the public. Open source Android, open source Chromium are the main Linux survivors, for the general public. Both are not able to defeat either Apple not Microsoft. Perhaps KDE and Linux might be able to do this?
                      At the end of the day, it's not the DE as much as software support and availability that matters. Most people will stick with what comes with their laptops or use what supports the software they need. Adobe is a good example, Microsoft with their Office suite is another. In some Linux circles it seems that simple/beginner friendly is something for just that - beginners. I think that all users can appreciate something that is simple to use, not just beginners.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X