Wine 6.20 Released With More Modules Switching To The PE Format

[Templar82]

If you need to use Windows apps then install Windows.

Refer to point 1

[oiaohm]

I'll admit to that. I do have a strong bias against creating new accounts and asking questions of strangers when I can just try harder to answer my question by anonymously reading documents.

Possibly a negative side-effect of operating on the assumption that anything I say or do online will remain visible and easy to search up from my name in perpetuity. Asking a question means doing due diligence to not look stupid, which is mentally exhausting compared to just searching and reading more.

I do have secondary accounts same reasons. Yes accounts to ask possible stupid questions on. Remember what I said about "sunk cost fallacy". There is a point that searching and reading more is just costing you more in time and being mentally exhausting than asking. Yes once you get exhausted searching human brain turns horrible and attempt to make a justification for stopping that normally turns out to be totally the wrong answer.

Its getting the balance between when you should ask and when you are willing to search more. Normally its possible to work out what is a safe upper limit as in I can search up until this point and my brain will not create a false answer on me. Past that point like it or not I have to place a question.

[oiaohm]

If you need to use Windows apps then install Windows.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/this-is-the-performance-difference-you-can-expect-from-running-your-games-on-steamos-vs-windows.1613621/

This is not that straight forwards. Those with games are finding this but it also applies to other Windows applications. Some windows applications/games are in fact faster under wine today. Most likely with futex2 work in future more will be faster under wine than windows.

So if you need to use windows applications it really does depend on what those windows applications are if you should be using wine or windows. Yes there are legacy windows applications you have a better time running under wine that attempt to run under windows 10 or 11.

[ssokolow]

I do have secondary accounts same reasons. Yes accounts to ask possible stupid questions on. Remember what I said about "sunk cost fallacy". There is a point that searching and reading more is just costing you more in time and being mentally exhausting than asking. Yes once you get exhausted searching human brain turns horrible and attempt to make a justification for stopping that normally turns out to be totally the wrong answer.

Its getting the balance between when you should ask and when you are willing to search more. Normally its possible to work out what is a safe upper limit as in I can search up until this point and my brain will not create a false answer on me. Past that point like it or not I have to place a question.

Secondary accounts are more effort, even before you count things like slogging through the ToS to check for "If we catch you with more than one active account, we'll ban you", worrying about whether I need to create a new e-mail address in case they decide to start connecting dots in the future (possibly for ad-targeting reasons), possibly slamming into "the only places we allow free e-mail addresses from are the ones that now require you to share an SMS number" (deviantArt apparently does that now), and worrying about if, given how things have changed from 1997 to now, maybe I should try to disguise my vocabulary and grammar to guard against mentally ill people and sociopaths connecting the dots to use my moment of laziness against me.

[sophisticles]

It's not Windows only since you can run it in Wine on Linux, dumbass.

Most Windows apps are far superior to Linux apps. Heck, they don't suffer from dependency hell either, you can use portable Windows apps easily etc. But it works with Wine too so not a problem, works on Linux.

No need to worry about GTK/Qt/ffmpeg and package managers and other bullshit dependency incompatibilities. No need to install anything either, much less be root. This applies even to Windows apps that are also available on Linux, natively.

You just admitted that Windows is a superior platform and outlined numerous reasons why but i am the dumbass?

What you conveniently ignore is that the apps are what make the platform, not the OS.

The reasons you outlined are precisely why Windows is vastly superior, because Windows has a vastly superior, full featured API that allows for the development of more robust, more capable apps compared to their OSS/Linux counterparts.

And sorry, but running Windows apps via WINE is not as good as running them natively, they don't work the same in many cases.

[Templar82]

but running Windows apps via WINE is not as good as running them natively

Why not?

Ignoring whatever software you are talking about that "don't work the same"
All the software I own works in Wine, some games ever perform better.

[Weasel]

You just admitted that Windows is a superior platform and outlined numerous reasons why but i am the dumbass?

Have you looked at how much junk Windows comes with? You think it's just the Windows API platform?

What you conveniently ignore is that the apps are what make the platform, not the OS.

So what is Linux + Wine which is able to run Windows apps without the OS?

I don't ignore, you're just being a dummy. Your reasoning is flawed and stupid.

And sorry, but running Windows apps via WINE is not as good as running them natively, they don't work the same in many cases.

Most work good enough. Others work flawlessly. Some don't work, but there's always VMs for some cases.

I don't give a shit about what you think. People run Wine because they prefer Linux as an OS. They don't want automatic updates that break random shit, they don't want spyware, Cortana, or whatever other fucking things Windows has. They want to customize their systems, not be stuck with 4GB minimum RAM requirements for a freaking operating system, or be at Microsoft's whim.

At the same time, they want to run Windows apps. Which Wine does since it implements the Windows API for Linux. Are you mad at facts or what?

[oiaohm]

You just admitted that Windows is a superior platform and outlined numerous reasons why but i am the dumbass?

This error is really explained by the next it.

What you conveniently ignore is that the apps are what make the platform, not the OS.

A platform is not a OS. Just because a OS support X platform does not mean it does it well. This is coming very important.

The reasons you outlined are precisely why Windows is vastly superior, because Windows has a vastly superior, full featured API that allows for the development of more robust, more capable apps compared to their OSS/Linux counterparts.

The Linux issues is not the number of features the API has. Microsoft advantage traces to a single group of features SXS. Some of SxS end users end up hating like Click-to-Run (SxS) due to high CPU usage and memory usage.

And sorry, but running Windows apps via WINE is not as good as running them natively, they don't work the same in many cases.

http://test.winehq.org/data/faf645d01632e4cf7ef056a86a675a12df39a80e/

The not as good as running windows applications natively claim totally ignores the elephant in the room. Do note how the wine testsuite to compare to windows is running multi versions of windows 10. This is something the wine project wish they did not have todo. Yes the reason why applications work on 10 then don't work can be updates. So a program that works under wine is more useful to a user than a program that does not work at all.

Horrible reality as well due to windows instability of API even using windows you have applications that worked one way on the first version of windows 10 that on current update works differently now.

The reality here is the stability of the windows API implemented in wine is improving and the stability of Windows API in Windows 10 and newer is declining. And it now looking like they have past each other. With Valve support to wine we should expect this difference progressively come more in the face.

The arguement that wine was not as good as running the same application under Windows OS really only applies if you are still on Windows 7/8.

Yes this change is why you had Templar82 respond with why not? The reality is for people with Windows 10 and newer this is absolutely fair question because for them using wine is no worse on application issues than using windows itself. Of course with the upcoming futex2 changes and so on things are going to keep on moving in the wine direction. In some ways Microsoft has slipped up on quality control in quite a big way with Windows 10 and early releases of windows 11 suggest it going to be no different..

[Quackdoc]

What you conveniently ignore is that the apps are what make the platform, not the OS.

You have this completely backwards, the platform is what you build apps on top of, or rather the OS, I would argue that despite linux being superior in this regard, the idea that it does everything right, is not only retarded, but actively detrimental the the linux ecosystem. Windows does a lot of things right, but for every one that they do, they do two wrong in my opinion.

The reasons you outlined are precisely why Windows is vastly superior, because Windows has a vastly superior, full featured API that allows for the development of more robust, more capable apps compared to their OSS/Linux counterparts.

this is wrong, windows has a different API that allows app developers to do different things, the idea that it is vastly superior is not only in my opinion wrong, but also wrong in the eyes of most servers. as if it was so vastly superior, the world would pay the extra money to get windows licensing and run it instead of windows for all their work. and any "serious programs" would develop for windows instead of linux.

And sorry, but running Windows apps via WINE is not as good as running them natively, they don't work the same in many cases.

and in other cases they run better, I can run many windows games at better performance in linux than I can in windows EVEN while using DXVK on both systems, Just like I can smoke wine gaming on windows in other games.

and while I have not done any cpu and system latency benchmarks I would assume the same could be said for them

[DMJC]

Windows 98 to XP transition broke a lot of stuff. Including Microsoft Branded Hardware. Linux however has been very responsive in fixing issues. E.g I've logged a fault against the Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 support being broken in a game from 1999 in WINE 6.20 and already devs are looking into the issue, I also submitted a Force Feedback bug to the Kernel mailing list 20 years ago and a dev got back to me in minutes and we had the hardware fixed/stable within 2 hours and it's worked for 20+ YEARS. Try doing that with Windows! (Last time I called Microsoft Support they wanted $50 just to continue the phone call). Open Source is the best development model, it works, it's superior, it's not even a contest. Hardware/Software lasts longer, it's better supported, and tends to be more stable. E.g You can run applications from 95/98 stable, without patching in WINE which Windows has completely broken. WINE is starting to tackle problems/applications I never thought I'd see running. Between WINE and ReactOS ,it's rapidly getting to the point of never needing to boot Windows for anything.