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  • oiaohm
    replied
    Originally posted by coder View Post
    I'm not saying you're wrong, because I've never worked in the VFX industry (although I've worked on some software for it, once), but it would surprise me if they prized workstations' compute resources over an artist's productivity. These are some rather well-paid workers on fairly tight schedules. And I'm sure schedule-slip can be very costly.
    Problem is to remember that you have 1 artist productivity vs all the artist waiting on the render to complete productivity. So those workstations compute resources being taken away by one artist effects others. This is why this problem kind of goes down hill. Think what could be in render could be a back drop or something that not rendered is stopping like 50 to 60 other people from progressing.

    Yes making one artists productivity worse so that other artists get the renders they need can prevent a very big schedule slip.

    So its not exactly the workstations compute resources alone. Its the effect of those resources on the over teams productivity vs that of the individual person taste and preference in software. So those things turn ugly arguments if the person who is the odd man out is not fast enough to wake up that yes they want to run X software but they have to use Y because if they don't Z renders that the teams needs will delayed and that will cause bigger effects than what they are asked to-do taking longer.

    This is where it gets tricky. The reality is at times people in VFX will be forced to use the Linux solutions no matter how bad they are to use just due to how important the computer resources are at that moment for everyone else productivity.

    Those tight schedules are part of the cause here as well. The balance how to achieve those schedules. The reality here in VFX you are normally not going to be forced to use a piece of Windows software due to the current location of the production but you could be forced to use Linux software because of where the production is at the moment and how important render processing is to complete so that everyone can be working. Achieving tight schedules at times means you may not get to use your preferred software.

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  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
    yes pixar dual boot for windows and when you are not using you machine you will leave it in Linux workstation mode makes absolute sense. Yes Pixar you will get ripped for leaving you workstation in Window mode because it cannot join the render farm effectively.
    I'm not saying you're wrong, because I've never worked in the VFX industry (although I've worked on some software for it, once), but it would surprise me if they prized workstations' compute resources over an artist's productivity. These are some rather well-paid workers on fairly tight schedules. And I'm sure schedule-slip can be very costly.

    Leave a comment:


  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by sorbus View Post
    We're also starting to use Unreal, which is a mix of Linux and Windows, though it is currently a bit behind on Linux feature-wise, so most of the Unreal stuff runs on Windows.
    As in the games engine, or do you mean some other software package?

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  • oiaohm
    replied
    Originally posted by sorbus View Post
    There isn't a 'supercomputer' at Pixar for rendering, it's just a renderfarm with a lot of cores. I've been working in the VFX industry for since 2010 as a sysadmin, and all of the VFX shops I've worked in primarily use Linux (CentOS derivatives) for workstations and render nodes. The main interactive software is Maya, Houdini and Nuke, all of which run on Linux (and Windows, but almost all of it is run on Linux). Renderers are Arnold, Clarisse, Renderman. Some software such as Adobe products and zbrush is Mac and Windows only, but they're a minority. Stereo conversion software is written in house and is Linux only. Editorial work is done on Linux, Mac and Windows, depending on the job. We're also starting to use Unreal, which is a mix of Linux and Windows, though it is currently a bit behind on Linux feature-wise, so most of the Unreal stuff runs on Windows.
    https://sciencebehindpixar.org/pipeline/rendering
    Yep Pixar super computer is 2000 individual machine with 12 cores each cluster render farm when this was written for pixar. Yes this does mean the ~200 workstations at pixar joining on to the cluster when they can does make quite a bit of differences. Do note the write up that some of the rendering for some movies takes over 2 years to render. You really don't want goof and even a small percentage gain in performance you start talking days and weeks of savings with the projects pixar does.

    sorbus yes pixar dual boot for windows and when you are not using you machine you will leave it in Linux workstation mode makes absolute sense. Yes Pixar you will get ripped for leaving you workstation in Window mode because it cannot join the render farm effectively.

    Lot of VFX getting enough processing power for the render farm is a constant battle. Yes makes debates over what software to use for what extremely toxic in VFX.
    Going like the following
    A: Use this Linux based software to-do X task.
    B: I can use this windows based software to X task very quickly..
    A: Don't you dare that will slow the renders down.
    B: I don't know that Linux based software so it will take me ages todo it and this will delay production as well.

    Yes this is going to go down hill.

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  • sorbus
    replied
    Originally posted by sophisticles View Post
    I just want to point out that Pixar became a stand alone corporation in 1986 with money from Steve Jobs who was the majority stakeholder and while it was sold to Disney in 2006, Pixar pays homage to Apple on a regular basis:

    https://www.stuff.tv/my/features/bes...n-pixar-movies

    https://pixar.fandom.com/wiki/Apple,_Inc.

    https://applemagazine.com/that-looks...r-movies/26413

    There is also a reference in every Pixar movie to A113

    https://www.insider.com/a113-hidden-...-movies-2018-6

    So, Pixar supposedly uses RHEL for desktop workstations, its servers and its supercomputer, yet chooses to pay homage to Apple in its movies?

    Right.
    There isn't a 'supercomputer' at Pixar for rendering, it's just a renderfarm with a lot of cores. I've been working in the VFX industry since 2010 as a sysadmin, and all of the VFX shops I've worked in primarily use Linux (CentOS derivatives) for workstations and render nodes. The main interactive software is Maya, Houdini and Nuke, all of which run on Linux (and Windows, but almost all of it is run on Linux). Renderers are Arnold, Clarisse, Renderman. Some software such as Adobe products and zbrush is Mac and Windows only, but they're a minority. Stereo conversion software is written in house and is Linux only. Editorial work is done on Linux, Mac and Windows, depending on the job. We're also starting to use Unreal, which is a mix of Linux and Windows, though it is currently a bit behind on Linux feature-wise, so most of the Unreal stuff runs on Windows.
    Last edited by sorbus; 03 October 2021, 10:56 AM.

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  • sorbus
    replied
    Originally posted by stormcrow View Post

    It's obvious. Because even $200 - $300 monitors have HDR-10 now, and Linux's support is abysmal. It's not even all that great for HiDPI. Studios are more likely to use Macs or Windows front ends with Linux compute cluster back ends.
    Most VFX production houses I've worked in predominately use Linux (CentOS currently) for workstations, though Mac OS and Windows are also used for some software that doesn't have a Linux port (e.g., photoshop, zbrush). Though HiDPI and HDR don't seem to be needed currently much AFAIK. Render is almost all on Linux. Pre-production may be different though

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  • Awesomeness
    replied
    Originally posted by sophisticles View Post
    So, Pixar supposedly uses RHEL for desktop workstations, its servers and its supercomputer, yet chooses to pay homage to Apple in its movies?

    Right.
    When I squint my eyes really hard, this almost looks like an argument.

    Leave a comment:


  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by sophisticles View Post
    when that was challenged with facts the claim was changed to 3d rendering is done on Linux workstations, then the claim was refined to Pixar specifically, when I showed that according to Pixar they use a supercomputer for rendering the claims where changed again.
    Were any claims changed, or were specific and personal experiences offered, which will be fairly narrow by definition?

    Originally posted by sophisticles View Post
    2) The claim was made that Linux is better with multi-GPU support and that Windows doesn't support multi-GPU all that well. This claim is so patently stupid it hurts, I was running a Voodoo 5 5500 on Win 98 Se over 20 years ago and the Voodoo 5 5500 is a dual GPU card.
    That's cool, but you'll probably be aware that 3D APIs have changed a great deal, since then. GPU-compute didn't even exist, in any meaningful way, back in 1998. So, if the claim specifically related to multi-GPU compute, then that's yet another thing, entirely.

    Whatever the case, I haven't seen anyone state that Wayland finally getting HDR support is a bad thing. I don't currently run Wayland, but this would probably change my mind, if/when I have a HDR monitor.

    Leave a comment:


  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by sophisticles View Post
    I can't remember the last time I saw a non-hardware related BSOD, even back in the XP64 days non-hardware failure related BSODs were rare.
    Yeah, I could probably count on one hand the number of Win 7 bluescreens I ever saw. I do tend to drag my feet on upgrades, so I didn't run it at home or work until it was pretty mature.

    FWIW, I could also count on one hand the number of Linux kernel panics I ever saw. I've been using it at home & work since 2003, but not for gaming or anything bleeding edge.

    Leave a comment:


  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
    Bull. You stated, word for word that almost every Autodesk product runs on Linux. When it was clearly shown that the glaring majority of software produced and published by Autodesk do not, YOU shifted the goalposts by claiming that you were referring to only a specific segment.

    Typical dishonesty as expected.
    OMG. What are you doing? I just want to hear, in your own words, what you are trying to do and why you think the internet needs you to do it.

    The way I see it, dragorth was probably just thinking of the film/video production software, as clarified. If so, then the original statement was poorly worded. That's unfortunate, but no crime. It was fair for you to highlight the reality of Autodesk's Linux support, in case anyone got the wrong idea. However, now that the facts have been established and a claim of good faith was made by the OP, why not give the benefit of the doubt and let it go? What good can possibly come of trying to prosecute dragorth? Nobody cares and you just come off looking worse for it.

    If you were talking face-to-face and someone made an inaccurate statement and then offered a qualification after you corrected them, would you continue haranguing them or just let it go? Perhaps I'm fortunate, but I don't personally know anyone who wouldn't just let it go.

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