Chrome/Chromium's Ozone X11 Code Now Fully Enabled, Old Legacy X11 Code To Be Removed

[kpedersen]

Again you don't care about laptop Linux users because your laptop is always plugged in (IOW you're not using it as a laptop).

Are you assuming that you can't do software decoding on battery power? You might need to update your knowledge. Batteries have come a long way. You should actually try it some time

[avem]

That's right. Most of that started after the modularization of XOrg has begun. But you wrote that you've been using Linux for nearly two decades now. You should've known that there used to be times, where configuring the XServer was a pain in the ass (besides the rest of the system).

Of course, I remember but then 1) most installers back then did a decent job of configuring the file (but using extra monitors and input devices was a royal PITA, yeah) 2) We're now in 2021 talking about a whole different situation.

Should we remember other old and already addressed X.org deficiencies to prove that Wayland is better now? As it stands right now, in August 2021, X.org is a much better graphical system for absolute most Linux users other there.

I'd love Wayland to replace X.org but (!) only after

1. Wayland gets its own xorg-server for which you can create light-weight WMs. As a result of it there will be no need to configure Wayland for Gnome, KDE, Weston, etc (currently you need to configure them all separately and manually, using different dissimilar configuration files which is pure madness in 2021 - why on Earth we're again back to manual configuration? - that must be a bad joke).
2. Wayland starts to work on an actual rock, e.g. on any VESA 2.0 compatible graphical card. AFAIK current Wayland compositors have very strict HW requirements which means whenever your Linux doesn't have proper graphics drivers for your HW, you're screwed and Wayland does not work.

The way Wayland is implemented right now is a freak show.

[mppix]

It's stupid and irrelevant to post some web browser benchmarks, on such obscure and niche architecture (nobody, except Apple and few other companies is optimizing for Apple M1 silicon. It takes years for ffmpeg to get optimization for mainstream x86/x86_64 architectures new extensions)

Show us benchmarks with mpv/mplayer/ffmpeg playing local files(with different codecs: h264, h265 and av1 at least), because web browsers are so complicated nowadays, that they can have greater impact themselves on power usage, than decoding backends on x86_64)

Just to not get ahead of ourselves: In the real world, Apple M1 is more relevant than the entire Linux Desktop put together.

[mppix]

Even that is not enough. I want them to shoot the devs who contributed X11 code as a warning to the rest.

It is easy to forget that
Xorg developers = Wayland developers

Wayland is what you get if you ask X11 developers to implement a display system today (without 30+ years of legacy code).

[Myownfriend]

Are you assuming that you can't do software decoding on battery power? You might need to update your knowledge. Batteries have come a long way. You should actually try it some time

Nobody even remotely suggested that. All that was said was that software decoding uses significantly more power and thus wastes battery when there's an option to use hardware decoding.

[intelfx]

<...> But it ain't gonna happen kiddos! <...>

Hey old fart, careful around here, or they may throw you out as well with all the legacy cruft...

(Insults work both ways.)

[mppix]

...
2021 we have no "scum" Flash and no universal HW video decoding. Isn't it great?
...

Actually, we do have a universal HW video decoding API. It is called VA-API and it is great.

...
In short Linux users are probably the only computer users who continue to "enjoy" software video decoding and encoding.

Actually Linux users are enjoying hardware decode with most applications focusing on VA-API*, including (from Arch wiki):
Multimedia frameworks:

• FFmpeg
• GStreamer

Video players:

• Kodi
• MPlayer
• mpv
• VLC media player

Web browsers:

• Firefox
• GNOME/Web
• Chromium should have support but it is broken as discussed here.

Notes:
- I have no clue about Chromium so I don't comment... I'll only note that even Gnome Web has HW acceleration.
- Most applications focus on VA-API but may offer VDPAU support. Usually, VDPAU is only recommended for NVIDIA users.
- The usual advice: buy hardware that supports your software.

[Myownfriend]

I'd love Wayland to replace X.org but (!) only after[LIST=1][*]Wayland gets its own xorg-server for which you can create light-weight WMs.

This is completely irrelevant. I will never understand why so many people will act like more than 0.001 percent of users are creating their own window managers or something.
If you're concerned that window managers will become more difficult to make with Wayland than advocate for the development of frameworks that help people do that. WLRoots is already a thing, anybody who wants to make a Wayland compositor to do that. Wayland is going to become un-Wayland like just for the sake of people whose understanding of how a window manager should work was defined by X11.

As a result of it there will be no need to configure Wayland for Gnome, KDE, Weston, etc (currently you need to configure them all separately and manually, using different dissimilar configuration files which is pure madness in 2021 - why on Earth we're again back to manual configuration? - that must be a bad joke).

Are people really spend all day downloading, installing, and setting up different DEs all day? No. So why act like these things are enormous that cripple everyday use cases?

[*]Wayland starts to work on an actual rock, e.g. on any VESA 2.0 compatible graphical card.

Why? I seriously doubt you need that.

AFAIK current Wayland compositors have very strict HW requirements which means whenever your Linux doesn't have proper graphics drivers for your HW, you're screwed and Wayland does not work.

What are defining as "strict"? Not having drivers for you hardware? That seems pretty base-level. What information are you working off of?

The way Wayland is implemented right now is a freak show.

Doesn't seem that way.

[avem]

By default without manually configuring things in August 2021:

• No major Linux distro supports HW accelerated video decoding in any of major Linux web browsers
• No major Linux distro supports HW accelerated video decoding in any video players

IOW no HW accelerated video decoding acceleration at all. HW accelerated video encoding is in an even worse shape.

Now by default two other major commercial OSes, Windows and MacOS, enable HW accelerated video decoding in pretty much all major applications (browsers and video players including mpc-hc and VLC) and using HW accelerated video encoding is a breeze as it simply requires to set an option in your application of choice. That's it.

Like CSGO pros say, glhf.

And this article is about Chrome's Ozone graphical layer.

Linux on the desktop is in such a horrible state any news which touches GUI invariably detours into discussing X.org/Wayland/video acceleration/GTK/Gnome/Plasma and how they all either look and feel broken. It looks like under Linux we only have properly functioning CPU, NIC, storage and certain input devices which are all great for running the server. Everything else is a contentious topic.

[avem]

This is completely irrelevant. I will never understand why so many people will act like more than 0.001 percent of users are creating their own window managers or something.
If you're concerned that window managers will become more difficult to make with Wayland than advocate for the development of frameworks that help people do that. WLRoots is already a thing, anybody who wants to make a Wayland compositor to do that. Wayland is going to become un-Wayland like just for the sake of people whose understanding of how a window manager should work was defined by X11.


Are people really spend all day downloading, installing, and setting up different DEs all day? No. So why act like these things are enormous that cripple everyday use cases?


Why? I seriously doubt you need that.


What are defining as "strict"? Not having drivers for you hardware? That seems pretty base-level. What information are you working off of?


Doesn't seem that way.

If KDE and Gnome didn't fail spectacularly without being able to log you in, you could say that minor WMs are not required, however I've personally been in a situation when KDE and XFCE haven't allowed me to log in. Both times I spent hours to figure out which configuration files were broken and I'm an IT pro with over 20 years of experience of running Linux and other Unix OSes. For the average user the only solution would be to rm -rf $HOME/.* which is insane.

People indeed don't spend time setting DEs because the X11 Xorg server doesn't even need to be configured which is not the case for Wayland DMs right now.

Can you talk for yourself please and avoid expressing your confidence in what I need?

No information. Try running Wayland on unsupported HW and get back here. Gnome and KDE both will probably not work properly. I'm not sure which Wayland DMs even work when the GPU isn't properly supported.

Considering Wayland's uptake it's not about what it seems to you, it's reality. OK?