GNOME Human Interface Guidelines Being Updated For GTK4, Other Modern Features

[skeevy420]

skeevy420 Is it really that important to have some “usability group” deliver on weekly blogs, fake smiles and brief attention?

Yes. I tend to find the almost daily GNOME blogs on planet.gnome.org enlightening about what changes the computing world might see.

[Vistaus]

KDE allows dragging from open space and non-interactable elements (like text labels and images).

Not by default, only when enabling that option in Kvantum Manager.

[cynical]

Right. So using VSCode, Audacity, Evolution and LO Writer (to name just my own desktop usage) on a mobile phone is "more and more common". Good to know </sarcasm>.

What about the calendar, files, a browser, weather app, etc? Maybe someone would want to use Evolution if there was nothing better. It should be an option.

[finalzone]

Gnome 2 was fairly well liked as I recall. It was even starting to get Linux thought of as a viable desktop OS by casual users. Gnome 3 undid much of that.

Speak for yourself. Those casual users from kids to grandparents have no problem running GNOME Shell.

[markus40]

Because of how few KDE distributions there really are. Fire up almost any distribution and KDE is likely to be treated as a 2nd class citizen...as well as Mate, Cinnamon, and XFCE. Let's not even get into Enlightenment. Pardon me for wanting the primary desktop offered in most places to more cater towards my preferred style of computing. Pardon me for not liking system tools that follow the HIG on my KDE Desktop damn near regardless of the distribution I'm using.

So, let me get this straight. You're blaming people who put work packaging their distro's and writing their applications? In your opinion they make not the same, thus wrong, choice as you. This results in you hating Gnome so much you take every opportunity you get to spit on it. Right?! Not only you want to dictate everyone in following your opinion. But you are cowardly blaming the wrong people for not catering to you at every whim. You probably find it strange why your opinion carries no weight. I would suggest taking a long hard look into the mirror. Hopefully, you will conclude that it is your crazy attitude, which is bordering on megalomania, is to blame.

Which brings me to my 2nd reason: Because of how the GNOME HIG gets superimposed onto GTK programs. Yes, I know that GTK and GNOME aren't synonymous with each other, but a lot of GTK applications do follow the HIG due to how prominently GNOME is used. Complaints towards the HIG are because of how it effects the interface of programs in general. If their guidelines are mucking it up for the rest of us shouldn't we say something to them? If the KDE devs implemented UI guidelines that effected random 3rd party programs and system tools that you used I'd expect to hear the same things from you in KDE threads.

You do know that the developers of a gnome acknowledge your point of view and went out of their way to separate Gnome more from GTK by creating libadwaita, which will be the library implementing the HIG. Completely separated from the development of GTK. So all the HIG stuff and new development for Gnome is in libadwaita. Of course, you can already see where this is heading. People will include libadwaita in their GTK applications infuriating you even more with their way of developing their applications without taking you in consideration. Which, again, will result in you frantically searching for Gnome posts to rant about it.

FWIW, just as many GNOME users go off on rants in KDE threads. And just like us repeating the same tired arguments in these threads, they repeat the same tired arguments as well. I swear that some GNOME users have a dedicated CLA key just for Qt threads.

Unlike Gnome, KDE hindered me in my professional work for over 10 years. By crashing on the most inconvenient moments doing science. You don't see me writing crazy rants on every single KDE thread. By the way, your welcoming community turns ugly quickly if you are not there to praise KDE but to find solutions and not taking the mantra 'the next release will solve all your problems as gospel'.

[t.s.]

reba skeevy420. If only those guys at GNOME hire you two for their UX. Then we can expect more sane UX from GNOME.

[skeevy420]

So, let me get this straight. You're blaming people who put work packaging their distro's and writing their applications? In your opinion they make not the same, thus wrong, choice as you. This results in you hating Gnome so much you take every opportunity you get to spit on it. Right?! Not only you want to dictate everyone in following your opinion. But you are cowardly blaming the wrong people for not catering to you at every whim. You probably find it strange why your opinion carries no weight. I would suggest taking a long hard look into the mirror. Hopefully, you will conclude that it is your crazy attitude, which is bordering on megalomania, is to blame.

No, I blame the GNOME HIG and the GNOME developers for not considering anyone else's viewpoint other than their own for a really long time. Over the years people have come and gone trying to reimplement features in GNOME and GTK and they always get shut down. You either adopt the HIG and what GNOME does or you end up rolling your own thing like Mate and Cinnamon do. In that regard my megalomania and GNOME's are two sides of the same coin. Libadwaita was a long time coming and a lot of us ranted for a long time to get us there.

You do know that the developers of a gnome acknowledge your point of view and went out of their way to separate Gnome more from GTK by creating libadwaita, which will be the library implementing the HIG. Completely separated from the development of GTK. So all the HIG stuff and new development for Gnome is in libadwaita. Of course, you can already see where this is heading. People will include libadwaita in their GTK applications infuriating you even more with their way of developing their applications without taking you in consideration. Which, again, will result in you frantically searching for Gnome posts to rant about it.

And I've actually given praise to libadwaita in those respective threads. Without trying to sound like an asshole about it, it matters little until it bears fruit.

I can't wait to see what that fruit ends up tasting like; if we'll have Mate Fruit, Cinnamon Fruit, GNOME Fruit, Qt Fruit. It really is an exciting prospect.

I'm personally a bit worried because I don't think it'll matter that much if Mutter won't consider adding in some form of better window management controls since that's where the majority of my issues lie and can be seen as an issue on both mobile and desktop views regardless of the graphical toolkit used depending on ones' view on the matter.

You're assuming too much about my opinions on things.

Unlike Gnome, KDE hindered me in my professional work for over 10 years. By crashing on the most inconvenient moments doing science. You don't see me writing crazy rants on every single KDE thread. By the way, your welcoming community turns ugly quickly if you are not there to praise KDE but to find solutions and not taking the mantra 'the next release will solve all your problems as gospel'.

And I'm in the exact opposite situation. GNOME didn't work for me for professional and personal use and the most inconvenient of times as well. Unfortunately a combination of using bleeding edge distributions, plugins, and GNOME causes that.

You mean people get pissed when someone criticizes something they like? Just like you're getting pissed at me now? You should look at yourself in that same mirror.

[skeevy420]

markus40 The KDE community got their fair share of problems. Floser resigned, Kver gave up on decorations, Roman forked kwin. The usability team won’t listen.

Fsck me running, but you get a like.

[markus40]

You mean people get pissed when someone criticizes something they like? Just like you're getting pissed at me now? You should look at yourself in that same mirror.

Touché, I too have my faults. Sorry for coming on too strong.

[t.s.]

But why? You clearly have found your desktop/people

GNOME is linux default DE. You ought to know about SteamOS, right? What DE they're targeting? How about Firefox? Or Java? Libreoffice? And why Ubuntu always use GNOME? PopOS? etc.. etc.. Most of them targeting GNOME because it's linux--de facto--default DE. If you have power to change it to others, like KDE or Enlightenment, please do it. Then most people here _I think_ will shut their mouth. Cause what? GNOME is out of picture for them. Well, at least for me. And then GNOME can shot itself to death for all I care.

But please, persuade those entities to use something else than GTK first before that.

Oh, and for the record, they (the critics) give their opinion/consent because they want GNOME to be better. And maybe, in the future, they want to try to use GNOME again. But well, maybe you people rather having someone like me? 'To hell with GNOME' attitude?