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  • #31
    Originally posted by kpedersen View Post

    No. Not really. "Open" ones running Linux distros simply don't exist in the wild. The last one I saw was a (now ancient) Thinkpad X61 tablet back in 2007 (Gnome 3's absured GPU requirements can't even support this machine now anyway).
    2007 Sony VIAO equipped with then powerful Intel Core Duo and Intel 865 Graphic Card disagrees. GNOME Shell runs fine as long users run light applications. Modern applications require more juice it becomes pointless to keep nearly 15 years old hardware where newer devices are more powerful and efficient.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by cynical View Post

      Well what’s actually happening is they are making their desktop equally useful in a mobile environment with a touchscreen, which is more and more common. I love that I can turn my laptop into a tablet and Gnome actually gives me a usable UI along with a software keyboard. It’s awesome.

      One time I had a bug that killed my trackpad and all I had to do was tap my way to the settings, then tap twice to disable and re-enable it. That is a very useful feature and would be a pain with UI elements that weren’t designed for use by a touchscreen. And If I want to use the tablet mode on my 2-in-1, things just work as I expect. If you don’t use those features then it will be a waste for you but it is useful to some of us.

      I only wish I could get a quality phone that runs the same software with good battery life but it will be a while…
      Right. So using VSCode, Audacity, Evolution and LO Writer (to name just my own desktop usage) on a mobile phone is "more and more common". Good to know </sarcasm>.

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      • #33
        There is so much to choose as desktop for Linux, why all the hate? Just go with the alternatives.

        Since 1998 the hate is strong with Gnome.

        Watch the articles and comments on Gnome and KDE threads.
        Gnome, hate, hate, hate.
        KDE, If there is some minor critique, then it is mostly accompanied by a disclaimer that the author really, really, really like KDE, please don't hurt me.
        Articles about Gnome, mostly about why doesn't the Gnome desktop behave like everybody else, shame, shame, shame! Why don't they listen to me, the user, who doesn't use it? Nobody uses Gnome. Maybe noobs who don't know better. Certainly, not people who use Linux daily on the desktop. So, it is irrelevant. But why don't they listen to me!
        KDE, Hey everybody another round of massive bug fixes. Since 1998 this is the trend. Every other article about KDE, the next release will be perfect. Yeah, more bug fixes! With the disclaimer, not that it needs it, it is already perfect.

        Funny, very funny....

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        • #34
          Originally posted by markus40 View Post
          Since 1998 the hate is strong with Gnome.

          Watch the articles and comments on Gnome and KDE threads.
          Gnome, hate, hate, hate.
          Gnome 2 was fairly well liked as I recall. It was even starting to get Linux thought of as a viable desktop OS by casual users. Gnome 3 undid much of that.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by markus40 View Post
            There is so much to choose as desktop for Linux, why all the hate? Just go with the alternatives.

            Since 1998 the hate is strong with Gnome.
            Since 2011. 1999-2010 were the best years for GNOME. I jumped ship around 2008 for XFCE.

            Watch the articles and comments on Gnome and KDE threads.
            Gnome, hate, hate, hate.
            KDE, If there is some minor critique, then it is mostly accompanied by a disclaimer that the author really, really, really like KDE, please don't hurt me.
            Articles about Gnome, mostly about why doesn't the Gnome desktop behave like everybody else, shame, shame, shame! Why don't they listen to me, the user, who doesn't use it? Nobody uses Gnome. Maybe noobs who don't know better. Certainly, not people who use Linux daily on the desktop. So, it is irrelevant. But why don't they listen to me!
            KDE, Hey everybody another round of massive bug fixes. Since 1998 this is the trend. Every other article about KDE, the next release will be perfect. Yeah, more bug fixes! With the disclaimer, not that it needs it, it is already perfect.

            Funny, very funny....
            And how many rounds of performance updates has GNOME had? So many that I've lost count. More performance updates coming next week .

            KDE needs bug fixes because, well, they have a massively larger code base, their desktop environment has 300x the amount of features, and they cater to a much wider variety of people. I'm not even going to explain C++14 to C++17 to C++XX, multiple GCC versions, multiple LLVM versions, and a lot more variables that KDE has no control over. FWIW, I'm fully aware that GNOME has to deal with similar changes over time. That's how complex software development works. I'm not even a programmer and I get that.

            GNOME, OTOH, keeps on needing performance updates because they reinvent the wheel every other release nor do they even leave the old wheel around. How hard would a toggle switch have been for vertical and horizontal workspace changing? Doesn't matter. They'll probably just reinvent it into diagonal workspace changing because they like their hot corners which will lead to 6 more performance updates. I can see how it could be hard to get something performing well if you keep changing things up.

            And the reason some of us are so critical of GNOME and less-so of KDE is how the developers respond to us here. Have an idea on a GNOME thread and you feel like you get shut down; you feel like they don't care to hear it. Have an idea on a KDE thread and you don't feel that way; you might even have a nice conversation with them. I can't count how many offhand comments I've made turned into friendly conversations with Nate. It's damn good PR.

            KDE does the best they can do to make their software customizable so it works in a lot of combinations for a lot of different workflows. GNOME does the best they can to shoehorn everyone into the same flow. Because KDE tries to cater to so many that we're willing to give them a bit of slack when things don't necessarily work as expected.

            GNOME not catering to the community like that nor having a person like Nate that interacts with us leaves us in a position feeling like all we can do is continuously post our grievances. That's the simplest way I can describe the difference between GNOME and KDE threads.

            My GNOME critiques come with the same disclaimer so that shit works both ways.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
              GNOME not catering to the community like that nor having a person like Nate that interacts with us leaves us in a position feeling like all we can do is continuously post our grievances
              But why? You clearly have found your desktop/people, if I'm reading your rebuttal of my post right. You found your welcoming community, your great desktop which fits like a glove and if not, you can customize it to fit. Why continuously post your grievances, for something I assume you wouldn't touch with a ten feet pole after you had found the desktop that, may I say it, rocks? Why, would you even use Gnome if it is so restricted and stubborn to listen to you as a user? Again, you clearly state, you found the desktop that does that all and more, why torture yourself. I also sometimes look to other desktops. I even use one, an Openbox/LightDM combo, on my Media PC/Server. As the GUI of this one is Kodi and the desktop needs to auto logon and get out of its way. Something Gnome is not built for. It needs only to support Kodi with backend things like, key-combo's, full-screen/undecorated apps which I can quit/kill with a uniform key on my remote keyboard and such. Openbox does this beautiful. Furthermore, I also try KDE and others out of curiosity. KDE I tried/try on and off since before this century, but never spoke to me. No problem, it is not for me. Clearly it is for many others. Who for some mysterious reasons like to go on a rant of Gnome, which they claim is not for them, can you believe it? You don't see me ranting continuously about a desktop I seldom use, I could because find it a crash prone hot mess since 1998. But I don't because I don't use it and I found my desktop. Why do you seemingly torture yourself? This baffles me to no end.
              Last edited by markus40; 23 May 2021, 07:21 AM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by markus40 View Post
                But why?
                Because usually people have to use Gnome one way or another because the big distributions use it by default.
                Kind of how you may not like Windows, but it's really hard to avoid it.

                The real shame is that for some things Microsoft seems to listen to its users more than Red Hat

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by 144Hz View Post
                  skeevy420 Is it really that important to have some “usability group” deliver on weekly blogs, fake smiles and brief attention?
                  Let me understand, when you can interact with the projects you like it's meritocracy, but when you can interact (on gitlab and on a blog) with a project you don't like it's fake smiles and brief attention?
                  Last edited by JackLilhammers; 27 May 2021, 05:43 AM. Reason: An article was missing

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by JackLilhammers View Post

                    Because usually people have to use Gnome one way or another because the big distributions use it by default.
                    Kind of how you may not like Windows, but it's really hard to avoid it.

                    The real shame is that for some things Microsoft seems to listen to its users more than Red Hat
                    Yes? I was 'forced' to use KDE for my work for years. A microMRI from the German company Bruker. It used SUSE and KDE. KDE users wet dream at that time because SUSE was the top KDE implementer. For me, it was a 'crash prone' nightmare for more than 10 years. You don't see me ranting on every single little KDE topic. Luckily, I had more control on the choice of the rest of the Linux desktops we used.
                    Last edited by markus40; 23 May 2021, 07:42 AM.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by markus40 View Post

                      But why? You clearly have found your desktop/people, if I'm reading your rebuttal of my post right. You found your welcoming community, your great desktop which fits like a glove and if not, you can customize it to fit. Why continuously post your grievances, for something I assume you wouldn't touch with a ten feet pole after you had found the desktop that, may I say it, rocks? Why, would you even use Gnome if it is so restricted and stubborn to listen to you as a user? Again, you clearly state, you found the desktop that does that all and more, why torture yourself. I also sometimes look to other desktops. I even use one, an Openbox/LightDM combo, on my Media PC/Server. As the GUI of this one is Kodi and the desktop needs to auto logon and get out of its way. Something Gnome is not built for. It needs only to support Kodi with backend things like, key-combo's, full-screen/undecorated apps which I can quit/kill with a uniform key on my remote keyboard and such. Openbox does this beautiful. Furthermore, I also try KDE and others out of curiosity. KDE I tried/try on and off since before this century, but never spoke to me. No problem, it is not for me. Clearly it is for many others. Who for some mysterious reasons like to go on a rant of Gnome, which they claim is not for them, can you believe it? You don't see me ranting continuously about a desktop I seldom use, I could because find it a crash prone hot mess since 1998. But I don't because I don't use it and I found my desktop. Why do you seemingly torture yourself? This baffles me to no end.
                      Because of how few KDE distributions there really are. Fire up almost any distribution and KDE is likely to be treated as a 2nd class citizen...as well as Mate, Cinnamon, and XFCE. Let's not even get into Enlightenment. Pardon me for wanting the primary desktop offered in most places to more cater towards my preferred style of computing. Pardon me for not liking system tools that follow the HIG on my KDE Desktop damn near regardless of the distribution I'm using.

                      Which brings me to my 2nd reason: Because of how the GNOME HIG gets superimposed onto GTK programs. Yes, I know that GTK and GNOME aren't synonymous with each other, but a lot of GTK applications do follow the HIG due to how prominently GNOME is used. Complaints towards the HIG are because of how it effects the interface of programs in general. If their guidelines are mucking it up for the rest of us shouldn't we say something to them? If the KDE devs implemented UI guidelines that effected random 3rd party programs and system tools that you used I'd expect to hear the same things from you in KDE threads.

                      FWIW, just as many GNOME users go off on rants in KDE threads. And just like us repeating the same tired arguments in these threads, they repeat the same tired arguments as well. I swear that some GNOME users have a dedicated CLA key just for Qt threads.

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