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LXQt 0.17 Released For This Lightweight Qt5 Desktop

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  • #31
    Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
    The reality if you use Kwin under iceWM thing will go massively wrong. Its due to the way X11 compositing extension is done.
    That's a technically possible configuration without using Xnest/Xephyr/etc.? Last I checked (admittedly years ago), IceWM was a lightweight window manager (like Fluxbox, Openbox, etc.) with a built-in panel, so it was architecturally impossible to combine it with another WM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Girolamo_Cavazzoni View Post
      I think in terms of Wayland or not a distinction should be made between pure window managers (compositors in Wayland terms) that at most offer a bar and full desktop environments that offer a completely integrated experience. Only then it may seem acceptable that IceWM, JWM, Openbox and many others won't become Wayland compositors - and that's okay. These project's aim is to be X11 window managers. Wayland simply is out of scope for them. Therefore similarly small projects exist that pass that heritage on by being small and lightweight and independent Wayland compositors.

      In my opinion there's no need to play them off against each other. It's a (maybe temporary) but reasonable coexistence.
      This is the wrong kind of logic. X11 on bare metal is coming end of life very quickly. There is the i3/sway option https://swaywm.org/ where people who like i3 X11 wm manager made fork called sway focused on implement i3 as a Wayland compositor.

      Openbox I can point to a work in progress alternatives for wayland https://github.com/wizbright/waybox and https://github.com/johanmalm/labwc

      Over the history of X11 there have been a lot of windows managers and DE that have ceased to be maintained and disappeared out of usage to be replaced by a fork.

      Coexistence for sure between X11 windows managers and Wayland compositors in Linux distributions unless something changes is 100 percent sure a temporary thing because current path the X11 server for bare metal is going to disappear.

      JWM developer is not doing a wayland port so users who like that will and wish to keep on using that design into the future will need to-do a fork.

      Now making a fork of a X11 windows manager to Wayland you don't want to wait until its the day Linux distributions have removed X11 server for bare metal because there is a lot of work making a Wayland compositor that works just like there is a lot of working making a X11 windows manager that not having major issues with different applications due to X11 quirks those applications expect.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by ssokolow View Post

        That's a technically possible configuration without using Xnest/Xephyr/etc.? Last I checked (admittedly years ago), IceWM was a lightweight window manager (like Fluxbox, Openbox, etc.) with a built-in panel, so it was architecturally impossible to combine it with another WM.
        Should I record KDE running with IceWM? Or IceWM with Kwin? Both work perfectly. Under X.org window managers are replaceable and interchangeable.

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        • #34
          LXQt is so exactly what gets out of my way it feels like moving to using an interface when I use something else.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by birdie View Post

            Should I record KDE running with IceWM? Or IceWM with Kwin? Both work perfectly. Under X.org window managers are replaceable and interchangeable.
            Yes. Window managers are replaceable. KDE != KWin.

            Record some combination of AwesomeWM and IceWM without using a nested X server like Xephyr to run one inside the other, since both are "just a window manager with a built-in panel".

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            • #36
              Here's some fun for ya.

              XFCE running with/under IceWM without xfwm in Fedora 33: https://imgur.com/a/dfMPBXH

              Go cry me a river. I can do the same with KDE/KWin, JWM, xdm (yeah, even this crap can drive KDE).

              Again under X.org a compositor mostly provides window decorations and focus management as everything else is already done by X.org. Wayland does nothing and it is 100% unusable without a compositor. And a dead compositor means all your Wayland applications have crashed hard and fast. Under X.org and Windows? Kill your WM/dwm.exe as many times as you want. Never used MacOS, so I don't know how it works on that side of the pond.
              Last edited by birdie; 15 April 2021, 04:08 PM.

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              • #37
                How can it be lightweight with all of this xorg insecure bloatware?

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by birdie View Post
                  And a dead compositor means all your Wayland applications have crashed hard and fast. Under X.org and Windows? Kill your WM/dwm.exe as many times as you want. Never used MacOS, so I don't know how it works on that side of the pond.
                  That's my big concern with Wayland, but I remember hearing "can't retain applications across compositor crashes" as one of the reasons EGLStreams is inferior to GBM, so the KDE people are at least thinking about it.

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                  • #39
                    Let's continue busting the great myths of oiaohm and other gifted Phoronix commentators who love to spread BS about X.org.

                    Here's KDE running with IceWM, thank you very much: https://imgur.com/a/5jO44XB

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                    • #40
                      I have to admit though that running IceWM/JWM/awesomewm with Kwin is impossible because the first three are window managers in themselves, so they drive both windows and show the taskbar, so if you try to `kwin --replace` them you will be left without the taskbar. But still you can use any of them to replace kwin in KDE no problem as indicated above. No idea if I can do the same with Gnome/mutter - I last used Gnome 20 years ago. For some reasons I believed that IceWM has a separate application driving the taskbar which is not true.

                      Lastly, you can enjoy X.org applications running without a WM at all: https://imgur.com/a/qS0plEf

                      Not only that, you can switch between them and interact with any of them. You just cannot move them around and bring them to front/put them in background.

                      Wake me up when I can run a Wayland session without the fear that all my running applications can crash in an instant (and e.g. Kwin loves crashing).
                      Last edited by birdie; 15 April 2021, 05:20 PM.

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