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  • #21
    Originally posted by Vistaus View Post

    What do you mean Enlightenment gets zero funding? Did I miss the news that Samsung ceased funding it?
    I wouldn't say that they have ceased funding the EFL project entiarly but they are not using it as extensively as they used to and have been moving to other stuff.
    free.fr also funded EFL but I don't think they do anymore.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by birdie View Post

      I don't recall any X.org DE/WM ever using someone else's compositor if not just for fun because it's perfectly possible unlike Wayland where good luck using Mutter under KDE or Kwin under Gnome - in both cases the result will be a broken environment.
      You can't do this on X11 as well. It's not possible to use GNOME Shell without Mutter on both X11 and Wayland. Mutter on the KDE X11 should work but it would integrate poorly with desktop. Not to mention that it would bring unneeded dependencies. So it's sometimes possible but not that great.

      Yes, many X11 desktops do use their own window managers but how many of them would do proper composition? Even KWin is still (or was recently) compositing using some hacks. That's why project like kwin-lowlatency or KWin-FT were introduced. Yes, you can use some existing compositors like picom just like you can use existing compositors on Wayland. Nothing stops you from doing that.

      Also about X.Org DE using someone else compositor - neither LXDE or LXQt have their own window manager.

      Originally posted by birdie View Post
      And don't BS me with wlroots, please. It's an afterthought, an excuse, an attempt to salvage the broken concept.
      X11 is also broken concept to a certain extent.
      Last edited by dragon321; 15 April 2021, 12:39 PM.

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      • #23
        Everyone is arguing about technical aspects, but what about aesthetics, what if i just hate kde and gnome visuals.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by birdie View Post
          I didn't know that, thank you! I can't quite understand if the entire Enlightenment project is financed by Samsung or it's only part of it which Samsung uses, a significant part nonetheless.
          Enlightenment is used in a OS platform called Tizen. Some tizen products from Samsung direct use the enlightenment windows manager. So yes samsung backs the complete Enlightenment project with a interest in Wayland version without X11 because it will suite some of their product lines. Samsung is not the only party putting money into Enlightenment with a interest in Wayland support.

          Enlightenment is quite a long way into the Wayland support side.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by StanGenchev View Post
            Enlightenment has full Wayland support.
            I've just tried Enlightenment 0.24.2/Wayland under Fedora 33:
            • It freezes randomly each few minutes for about twenty seconds
            • Select with a mouse then use the middle mouse button to paste - doesn't work
            • I've managed to completely freeze it twice
            • It doesn't see and cannot apply its own themes
            • And to top it all off, there's no lightweight wayland display manager - I mean I don't want to install GDM and that leaves me with ... nothing :-) Not that it's really needed but I love to see my users, not entering usernames in console ;-)
            Nah, it's not full Wayland support. It's a mostly working Wayland support.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by birdie View Post
              I've just tried Enlightenment 0.24.2/Wayland under Fedora 33:
              • It freezes randomly each few minutes for about twenty seconds
              • Select with a mouse then use the middle mouse button to paste - doesn't work
              • I've managed to completely freeze it twice
              • It doesn't see and cannot apply its own themes
              • And to top it all off, there's no lightweight wayland display manager - I mean I don't want to install GDM and that leaves me with ... nothing :-) Not that it's really needed but I love to see my users, not entering usernames in console ;-)
              Nah, it's not full Wayland support. It's a mostly working Wayland support.
              Did you look at Tizen. Before writing this no you did not. Tizen devices have no place for GDM/Display managers they auto login. Display manager is not part of a Wayland compositor.

              Tizen devices don't have a middle mouse button.

              Next Samsung work has them testing with Samsumg GPU not AMD or Intel or Nvidia. There are a few upstream issues to work out in the intel and amd drivers due to features the Samsung GPU supports but intel and AMD don't. Enlightenment wayland competition state really depends on what hardware you are running on.

              I would agree not a fully functional Wayland compositor yet on your normal x86 but its a different matter on Samsung arm soc chips.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
                There is not enough to keep on maintaining x.org X11 server on bare metal.
                Apparently, there is not enough interest in pushing X forward with new major releases and features. But that's okay. We really don't need that.
                I'm skeptical that aren't enough resources to maintain X11 more or less as is for a long time (i.e. only doing point releases with critical and security fixes). It doesn't need corporate backing or a big foundation. In fact, once those things get out of the way, I suspect we may see new independent developers willing to contribute.
                And maybe, in another decade, desktops will figure out how to use Wayland, or move on to something better.

                MATE was looking at using Mir as a Wayland compositor. I was hoping that devs from other small desktops like LXQt and xfce could work together and make Mir a success.
                Last edited by DanL; 15 April 2021, 02:22 PM.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by Apophis View Post
                  Everyone is arguing about technical aspects, but what about aesthetics, what if i just hate kde and gnome visuals.
                  Just wonderful. Of all the timelines, universes, dimensions, etc, why do I have to live in the one where Spiderman is only comic book hero, COVID exists, and the Goa'uld invade Earth to join Phoronix and dis both KDE and GNOME?

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by DanL View Post
                    Apparently, there is not enough interest in pushing X forward with new major releases and features. But that's okay. We really don't need that.
                    I'm skeptical that aren't enough resources to maintain X11 more or less as is for a long time (i.e. only doing point releases with critical and security fixes). It doesn't need corporate backing or a big foundation. In fact, once those things get out of the way, I suspect me may see new independent developers willing to contribute.
                    This is stupid wishful thinking. To get the 90 days heads up on CVE notices you need to either have corporate backing or big foundation backing. So independent developers without a proper backer cannot step into the X.org bare metal maintainer-ship role. The X11 on bare metal being unmaintained will mean distributions will stop shipping at some point.

                    Like it or not in some of these areas proper backing is required. No party has said they will support a new maintainer for bare metal X11. Please note support does not mean pay the person wages. The support would be to validate that they are not a security risk and so get the independant the access to the CVE and other security mailing lists so they can do on time point releases for security faults.

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                    • #30
                      I think in terms of Wayland or not a distinction should be made between pure window managers (compositors in Wayland terms) that at most offer a bar and full desktop environments that offer a completely integrated experience. Only then it may seem acceptable that IceWM, JWM, Openbox and many others won't become Wayland compositors - and that's okay. These project's aim is to be X11 window managers. Wayland simply is out of scope for them. Therefore similarly small projects exist that pass that heritage on by being small and lightweight and independant Wayland compositors.

                      In my opinion there's no need to play them off against each other. It's a (maybe temporary) but reasonable coexistence.

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