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Xfce 4.18 Planning Begins With An Eye On Wayland Application Support

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  • evasb
    replied
    wlroots would be better for Xfce, they can even join labwc to do a wayland compositor and fork after that to implement the rest of the things that are out of scope for labwc

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  • oiaohm
    replied
    Originally posted by curfew View Post
    I don't really mean that there should be a separate display server application that window managers talk to via some IPC protocol. Just that there is a single application instance that isn't patched for every single desktop environment separarely. The master instance itself could even be a library but functional in itself without any complex bootstrapping or initialization in client-side code.
    That is what wlroots and libmutter are both working in the direction of. The expanding functionality in libwayland-server from the reference wayland compositor is also heading in that direction.

    Something to remember here the fragmentation of buffer handling between Nvidia closed source and Open source drivers has resulted in way more complex bootstrapping/initalization and needing more than 1 code path as graphical operations that will work on all the open source drivers will not work on Nvidia eglstreams offering of the past.

    Big thing to make writing wayland compositor simpler so the reference libwayland-server can do more with less bootstrapping code is get Nvidia closed source to toe the line and provide the same interfaces everyone does. Nvidia with direct X under windows has to provide interfaces that suite what Microsoft wants we need the same with wayland. The days of releasing custom driver for the display server so you can be a unique beast to everyone else is coming to the end.

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  • Danielsan
    replied
    I vote for wlroot!

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  • Vistaus
    replied
    Originally posted by Alexmitter View Post

    They either want to use Mutter or upgrade their existing compositor with wlroots.
    You sure? 'Cause I have read in the Phoronix comments time and time again that they will use Mir to move to Wayland.

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  • curfew
    replied
    Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
    Remember the problem of IPC overhead and scheduler mistakes. Libraries method of Wayland avoids having to use IPC between a display server and windows manager stuff.
    I don't really mean that there should be a separate display server application that window managers talk to via some IPC protocol. Just that there is a single application instance that isn't patched for every single desktop environment separarely. The master instance itself could even be a library but functional in itself without any complex bootstrapping or initialization in client-side code.

    Leave a comment:


  • angrypie
    replied
    Originally posted by birdie View Post
    <birdie's usual tiresome drivel>
    If, for every anti-Wayland propaganda message you post here, you contributed two lines of code to make Xfce Wayland-ready, they'd be better off than even GNOME.

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  • oiaohm
    replied
    Originally posted by curfew View Post
    I have also been saying for a long time that I would like to see Mutter become that standard implementation for GTK-based desktops looking to support Wayland. I don't like fragmentation and do not believe that libraries alone are sufficient to avoiding it. No, we need a concrete display server-like master process that all DEs will use. That could be Mutter.
    This is not as simple. With the New Nvidia binary drivers coming with DMA BUF will equal less work for those who want to make a Wayland compositor. Why DMA BUF buffer pass around will be able to be used as the default way no secondary code paths just to support Nvidia.

    There is a fragmentation problem with the way Nvidia provides their binary drivers compared to open source drivers that really does need to be addressed.

    Remember the problem of IPC overhead and scheduler mistakes. Libraries method of Wayland avoids having to use IPC between a display server and windows manager stuff.

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  • DanL
    replied
    Originally posted by 144Hz View Post
    CSD, Wayland, Mutter. Excellent choices.
    Someone please ban this troll.

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  • curfew
    replied
    Originally posted by camel_case View Post
    The past prove a bad way too. Noone have a idea in which way Gnome will change Mutter in future. Maybe they find out windows are too complicated for users? They proved they are ready to do radical steps and ignore input from users or other projects. I would they forks of Gnome have much more users as Gnome themself, thats say all.
    I think Mutter is pretty generic a window manager, the only issue is this single dependency to a Gnome-specific package. If I recall right, I did actually personally trace the dependencies and despite the name "gnome-desktop" it is more or less a meta package which doesn't pull anything substantial from the actual Gnome desktop. (Some pointless weather widget for the lockscreen or something like that.)

    Mutter isn't same as Gnome Shell, where most of Gnome's look-and-feel originates from.

    I am yet to try the lambasted Gnome 40 but I can see it lurking in the Arch repos already. XFCE might win a few Gnome-escapees on their side if they just were a little bit quicker with this transition to Wayland... I am hoping they will choose Mutter because it could make using modern Gnome apps on XFCE little bit nicer.

    I have also been saying for a long time that I would like to see Mutter become that standard implementation for GTK-based desktops looking to support Wayland. I don't like fragmentation and do not believe that libraries alone are sufficient to avoiding it. No, we need a concrete display server-like master process that all DEs will use. That could be Mutter.
    Last edited by curfew; 24 March 2021, 03:46 AM.

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  • You-
    replied
    I dont think it would be useful to team up with Biudgie - that project (and the distro, I forget its name) is also more or less dead.

    It will be interesting to see if they choose the wlroots or the mutter path. But even without the desktop moving to wayland yet, the apps having support is a huge step.

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