GNOME Shell + Mutter 40 Beta Released With Wayland Improvements, Overview Redesign

[r_a_trip]

Shortsightedness is to dismiss and ignore said shortcomings and move on at any cost while the experience is still sub-par.

The correct approach would be to acknowledge and address the huge list of issues without the kind of arrogance or bigotism we've seen and help users ramp up to a wayland experience that satisfies them. Before trying to convince everyone that it's the way to go, they should make it the actual way to go.

Until then, we'll have to mention wayland improvements, as they are much needed to reach parity for everyone, not just for the most basic workflows.

Shortsightedness is denying that X.org development has reached its end (whether you like it or not) and that Wayland is the way forward.

X, in various implementations, also didn't materialize fully developed out of thin air. We all used it, warts and all, because that was what we had. I remember the fun with modelines in XF86Config and wondering if I was driving my CRT with the right values or slowly blowing it up.

Wayland and associated compositors will develop far quicker if we all use it day to day. Clinging to the corpse of X.org, in the hope that Wayland will suddenly reach feature parity without being used day to day, is just dragging out the inevitable.

[Volta]

birdie:

Wayland is broken, it's not ready yet!

also birdie troll

Sorry to crap on this parade but when will the stream of "X, Y, Z has improved support for Wayland" end? I thought at least Gnome/Mutter has supported Wayland perfectly for at least a couple of years now. When was the last time you read, "Something has improved support for X.org"? I don't remember such news pieces at all actually.

what a f*cking moron

[caligula]

Sorry to crap on this parade but when will the stream of "X, Y, Z has improved support for Wayland" end? I thought at least Gnome/Mutter has supported Wayland perfectly for at least a couple of years now. When was the last time you read, "Something has improved support for X.org"? I don't remember such news pieces at all actually.

Maybe those changes will appear in Devuan? A systemd / pulseaudio / wayland free distro would be a pretty solid starting point for these kind of updates.

[Volta]

Before trying to convince everyone that it's the way to go, they should make it the actual way to go.

You're free to do so or go whining somewhere else.

[Mez']

Shortsightedness is denying that X.org development has reached its end (whether you like it or not) and that Wayland is the way forward.

Well, I have never denied it personally.
For me, it's more of a timing question, although some design choices will also need a workaround, such as an xkill equivalent, the lack of proper ServerSideDecorations handling, or no session refresh via alt + f2 + r. I use these regularly (xkill and refresh), restarting Gnome and losing my session is a huge hassle.
The lack of proper SSD handling for app consistencies as shown by Shiba a few times feels really amateurish, because many cross-platform or cross-DE apps won't ever use CSD.
Furthermore, being able to drag, reduce or maximize a Firefox window is much easier with a titlebar (huge pain to find a spot to grab your window with 15 tabs in CSD mode), and these are not handled properly in a multi-monitor setup on wayland.

Wayland and associated compositors will develop far quicker if we all use it day to day. Clinging to the corpse of X.org, in the hope that Wayland will suddenly reach feature parity without being used day to day, is just dragging out the inevitable.

Maybe. But why in hell would I impose myself blocking issues, workflow hindrances and session restarts just for the sack of being annoyed? X works for me (and probably will until at least 2025 given Ubuntu 20.04 being a LTS) and helps overcome Gnome 3 limitations, while wayland has too many workflow blockers in its current progress. I'll keep following its progress but I believe it will be a huge fail on Ubuntu 21.04 with the diversity of workflows and extensions that Fedora users don't have. I think It will completely break from everywhere and they will regret it.

______________

Anyway, it would have been great to give some screenshots of the Beta so that we can visualize Gnome 40 current state and what evolved (visually, not in a change log) since last mention of its progress. I don't see anything in both the article and the Gitlab source.

[Mez']

You're free to do so or go whining somewhere else.

Pointing out actual and factual issues, blocking or not, inconsistencies and design shortcomings is whining? Well, go back with your arrogance to your pink world full of unicorns and rainbows then. Here, it's the real life, with real users and real workflows.

[Volta]

Pointing out actual and factual issues, blocking or not, inconsistencies and design shortcomings is whining? Well, go back with your arrogance to your pink world full of unicorns and rainbows then. Here, it's the real life, with real users and real workflows.

There are shortcomings in your head arrogant hypocrite. There's no piece of software more broken, more inconsistent than X. If you don't like the way the core graphic stack developers decided to work, feel free to do it on your own or shut up. You're delusional.

[birdie]

Off topic: I'm so glad I've added Volta to my ignore list. His every second message is a direct insult or/and name calling. I've repeatedly reported his messages but it looks like it's ok to behave this way.

[Volta]

Off topic: I'm so glad I've added Volta to my ignore list. His every second message is a direct insult or/and name calling. I've repeatedly reported his messages but it looks like it's ok to behave this way.

I'll be glad when pathetic trolls like you will be gone forever. Ps. who cares about your opinion?

[dylanmtaylor]

I hope to see the ArcMenu and Dash-to-panel extensions get updated soon.

I like GNOME overall, but I don't like the default user experience and much prefer GNOME with the addition of ArcMenu and Dash-to-panel.

Dash to panel is pretty fantastic. It's really the best of both world, modern well-maintained GNOME software and a familiar user experience