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GNOME Shell + Mutter 40 Beta Released With Wayland Improvements, Overview Redesign

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  • #21
    https://drewdevault.com/2021/02/02/A...horseshit.html

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    • #22
      He's wrong regarding conspiracy theories, but he's right regarding ugly bird people.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by birdie View Post
        Sorry to crap on this parade but when will the stream of "X, Y, Z has improved support for Wayland" end? I thought at least Gnome/Mutter has supported Wayland perfectly for at least a couple of years now. When was the last time you read, "Something has improved support for X.org"? I don't remember such news pieces at all actually.
        You don't see improvements for Xorg because it's a dead project.

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        • #24
          Few Fixes to all the FUD around Wayland/X11 here:

          1.) Xorg is not dead but on stasis since there is not much else it can do anymore, think of it as is finally LTS

          2.) Wayland was ready in 2012 and its design is a million years ahead of Xorg

          3.) Why is not ready yet, LOL Gnome 40, bla bla bla? because of Xorg, yeap because of Xorg ... let it sink in.

          You see when apple for example designed Quartz, they simply released Mac OS X desktop on Quartz (<-- make sense right?) and that was it, end of story.

          What that have to do with being Xorg fault? Well. you know FOSS world ... at first, let make an absolutely revolutionary redesign that is fast, mean, lean, time proofed, etc. that have none of the 30+ years design flaws of Xorg BUT nobody took into account that this is FOSS (ironic, isn't it?) and some neckbeard with a 486DX will start a mass whining rally because (insert favorite desktop) need to run Xorg apps and then your (insert favorite desktop) team realized their crap codebase is designed for X and it is choke full of bugs, security flaws and hacks, So there were 2 choices:

          1.) Do like Apple? take your time and redesign the core logic from the ground up the Wayland way using modern API and modern concepts and then emulate legacy apps
          2.) Waste years forcing Wayland to behave exactly like Xorg did, so you can have a common codebase for both with less security bugs and barely any upside.

          This is FOSS so obliviously the only real choice was number 2 and we have 8+ years adding a ton of satellite code to Wayland to behave exactly like Xorg did, So long story short, the answer to why Wayland don't do X or Y or Z? is because Xorg can't so nobody will develop it because it will break the compositors on Xorg (freaking genius if you ask me).

          What do you mean by Wayland was ready in 2012 and its design is a million years ahead of Xorg?, Well Wayland is a simple layer to get access to the GPU with the most bare construct possible, so outside of synchronization and bare access everything is decided on user space by the client, hence is genius because it does nothing on its own which means you can interact with the GPU with 100% freedom with 0% overhead, with Wayland is possible to have a desktop/app/compositor that can use 100% of the GPU with 100% efficiency by default, also Wayland can use any API the GPU support (Wanna do a desktop on CUDA? you can. it is retarded but you can), Wayland can even use hardware buffers straight up from the hardware without any manipulation or overhead, Vulkan? easy peasy, multilayer shading UX? AR capable desktop? VR? all easy peasy.

          With the added perk that this construct exposed by Wayland are so bare that will stay relevant until the whole GPU concept becomes completely invalid in a far future BUT sadly this won't happen for Gnome(GTK), KDE(QT), XFCE, Cinammon, etc. etc. until they decide to finally decide to drop the Xorg way of doing things and start rethinking with more modern approaches

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          • #25
            What release? https://download.gnome.org/core/40/ As far as I know the beta release was delayed.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by lumks View Post
              What release? https://download.gnome.org/core/40/ As far as I know the beta release was delayed.
              Seems like the sub-components have the beta tarballs: https://download.gnome.org/sources/gnome-shell/40/

              Also, this thread is about GNOME Shell and Mutter's 40.beta releases, not the whole GNOME environment.

              Cheers,
              Mike

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              • #27
                What is meant by "defaulting"? Is vertical still an option but isn't the default?

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                • #28
                  Every KDE or GNOME article about new features/support always has 30+ comments with maybe a handful of them being about the actual article lol. Like one of the first comments is always needlessly obtuse and the rest are arguing and name calling, yikes.
                  Anywho, as someone who doesn't use GNOME I thought that Wayland support is pretty much nailed down. Is that true and are they just keeping up with the continued Wayland development, or are there any big issues with GNOME on Wayland that still need to be ironed out like KDE?

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by ONLYDOWNDOGS View Post
                    Anywho, as someone who doesn't use GNOME I thought that Wayland support is pretty much nailed down. Is that true and are they just keeping up with the continued Wayland development, or are there any big issues with GNOME on Wayland that still need to be ironed out like KDE?
                    From the release notes, these are the changes related to wayland:
                    • Consider clients without mapped windows for xwayland auto-shutdown
                    • Default to starting Xwayland on demand
                    • xwayland: Restore abstract socket support
                    • Fix stuck icon in DND operation between X11 and wayland
                    • xwayland: Set xrandr primary output
                    • Gracefully handle Xwayland crashes
                    • wayland: Provide previous window dimensions on restore
                    • Fix xwayland grabs for override-redirect windows
                    Seems like mostly XWayland integration issues. The restore window dimensions one seems like the most important one in terms of user experience.

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                    • #30
                      I am using Wayland on Gnome (in Archlinux) as my daily workflow as of right now and I'm in a sweetspot where all the applications I use works well with Wayland or XWayland.
                      The main applications I use:
                      • Firefox
                      • Lutris
                      • Wine (XWayland) [Wayland support exists both third party and in mainline]
                      • Thunderbird
                      • VLC

                      And with a double screen setup (1080p) when I start playing games on Wine fullscreen on the second screen, Wayland forces Wine to set the application (fullscreen) on the second screen on demand, something it doesn't happen on X11. But my workflow is so small as the list suggest. Just recently started to use Wayland (this month) and Archlinux, very satisfied as of now.

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