GNOME 40 Approaches Its UI Freeze, Easy Means To Start Testing It

[mppix]

Because, GNOME is the 'default' DE for linux. When major company developing apps for linux, what DE they're usually targeting or fallback to? Gnome. (Ex. Firefox. Chrome. Libreoffice. Java. SteamOS). Beside that, you know too how you feel when using non native apps. Inconsistencies in theme, layout, etc, and usually greater memory usage than when using native apps.

It is not Gnome's fault if other DE's cannot integrate (is assume GTK). There are ways to integrate GTK and KDE apps and they work (at least of Gnome). Proprietary and Java is a different story but I don't think (or at least hope) that you are not blaming that on Gnome too.
You should probably bring this up with your DE's maintainers (and contribute within your capacity).

And when you became the 'face' of linux, you have the responsibilities to furfill that role, serving your users. Make something user friendly that 99% linux user can use. Or, make it flexible enough so the rest of user can use it comfortably.

You should probably write this statement in any DE mailing lists. Gnome is the face of Linux, LMAO.

Oh, and switch the 'default' DE for linux to KDE, or XFCE, or some other flexible, good DE. Then, none will care about Gnome except people that using or interested in it. Gnome can then became experimenting DE for all I care.

KDE and especially XFCE are somewhat behind the curve technologically especially with regards to Wayland. I think the only one that you could reasonably propose anywhere is a wlroots based DE (but they tend to be even more minimalist than Gnome).
Anyhow, you should probably just submit it as proposal to the distro of your choice.

I think you have quite an agenda. Let us know how things go.

[JackLilhammers]

If you actually read the post, you'd have noted that it refers to JackLilhammers postulate that 99% of Gnome users need extensions.

Wait, I didn't say that.

The fact that Gnome requires extensions to achieve basic desktop functionality that 99% of the pc users just take for granted is bad UX.
No design vision can justify the lack of standard features

99% is not a random number.
We know that Linux desktop market share is around 2%. So 98% already have the basic features I'm talking about, by design.
In this 2% there are all the cinnamon, kde, lxqt, mate, pixel, unity, xfce, etc users that also have these features.
I don't know exactly their numbers, but I'd say that they make up to half of the linux users.
Assuming that I'm wrong and all the other DEs don't add up to 1%, let's take a look at Gnome distributions.
I'd count those that ship with some extensions, but it's easier to name the ones that don't, which are mainly those sponsored by Red Hat, and Debian.
The last one I'm naming is of course Ubuntu, which ships with extensions to provide 5 major changes in terms of UX:

• Desktop icons, albeit a broken version
• Window buttons
• Movable dock
• System tray

Considering that Ubuntu LTS can be considered the default Linux distro, I'd say that my 99% estimate is pretty accurate

[mppix]

Wait, I didn't say that.

99% is not a random number.
We know that Linux desktop market share is around 2%. So 98% already have the basic features I'm talking about, by design.
In this 2% there are all the cinnamon, kde, lxqt, mate, pixel, unity, xfce, etc users that also have these features.
I don't know exactly their numbers, but I'd say that they make up to half of the linux users.
Assuming that I'm wrong and all the other DEs don't add up to 1%, let's take a look at Gnome distributions.
I'd count those that ship with some extensions, but it's easier to name the ones that don't, which are mainly those sponsored by Red Hat, and Debian.
The last one I'm naming is of course Ubuntu, which ships with extensions to provide 5 major changes in terms of UX:

• Desktop icons, albeit a broken version
• Window buttons
• Movable dock
• System tray

Considering that Ubuntu LTS can be considered the default Linux distro, I'd say that my 99% estimate is pretty accurate

I misunderstood. However following this logic, I'd remove at least a part of the mac marketshare. Once someone gets used to super+"write" or mac's super+space+"write", much of the other "workflows" fade quickly. The windows super+search is broken by comparison.

Separately, desktop icons and window buttons can be enabled in vanilla gnome. They are just disabled by default. System tray also exists (top left corner icons) but it is not the "default tray," which is discouraged by vanilla Gnome.

[t.s.]

It is not Gnome's fault if other DE's cannot integrate (is assume GTK). There are ways to integrate GTK and KDE apps and they work (at least of Gnome). Proprietary and Java is a different story but I don't think (or at least hope) that you are not blaming that on Gnome too.
You should probably bring this up with your DE's maintainers (and contribute within your capacity).

1. DE-A exists, with their layout, themes, etc..
2. DE-B, create extension for using the DE-A themes, layout, etc.
3. Because the nature of DE-A --which is experimental DE-- they sometimes break their own standards.
4. DE-B extension breaks.
5 DE-B update their extension.
6. repeat point 2-4.

It used to be like that. Not often, but sometimes it happen. Oh, and I still remember, used to have to write 'gsettings ...' to apply something to gnome. As with another DE, it just with opening their system settings (except something like awesome, i3, etc).

You should probably write this statement in any DE mailing lists. Gnome is the face of Linux, LMAO.

Err.. you do see the qoutes sign, right? And I think you should have studied about what the meaning.

KDE and especially XFCE are somewhat behind the curve technologically especially with regards to Wayland. I think the only one that you could reasonably propose anywhere is a wlroots based DE (but they tend to be even more minimalist than Gnome).
Anyhow, you should probably just submit it as proposal to the distro of your choice.

I think you have quite an agenda. Let us know how things go.

Things defaulted to gnome since X11, not just recently.

And I'm using Arch. It's DE agnostic, me thinks.

Agenda? Just wish to have a better, not too fragmented linux future.

[JackLilhammers]

I misunderstood. However following this logic, I'd remove at least a part of the mac marketshare. Once someone gets used to super+"write" or mac's super+space+"write", much of the other "workflows" fade quickly. The windows super+search is broken by comparison.

Separately, desktop icons and window buttons can be enabled in vanilla gnome. They are just disabled by default. System tray also exists (top left corner icons) but it is not the "default tray," which is discouraged by vanilla Gnome.

• Desktop icons have been removed from vanilla Gnome since 3.26. You need an extesionsion, and the one shipped with Ubuntu is broken
• Window buttons are still there, but you need either dconf-editor or Gconf, which are definitely not user friendly tools. Or Gnome Tweaks, which is not installed by default
• It matters very little if Gnome discourages the traditional system tray, when all the other OSs, all the other DEs, and most Gnome based distros use it
• I don't think you've not been using the Windows lately, because the search bar works exactly like you'd expect

[mppix]

1. DE-A exists, with their layout, themes, etc..
2. DE-B, create extension for using the DE-A themes, layout, etc.
3. Because the nature of DE-A --which is experimental DE-- they sometimes break their own standards.
4. DE-B extension breaks.
5 DE-B update their extension.
6. repeat point 2-4.

Exactly how the kernel (ABI/API) behaves

Things defaulted to gnome since X11, not just recently.
And I'm using Arch. It's DE agnostic, me thinks.
Agenda? Just wish to have a better, not too fragmented linux future.

Look, Linux is fragmented: distros, desktops, filesystems. However, there are few "bad" solutions and many have a common denominator for interoperability, e.g. xdgportal+pipewire desktop sharing under Wayland. This drives innovation.
Of course, this does not invite closed-source provides to offer software in an already small market. However, it is possible that flatpak/snap improves that at least to some degree.

[mppix]

• [1]Desktop icons have been removed from vanilla Gnome since 3.26. You need an extesionsion, and the one shipped with Ubuntu is broken
  [2]Window buttons are still there, but you need either dconf-editor or Gconf, which are definitely not user friendly tools. Or Gnome Tweaks, which is not installed by default
  [3]It matters very little if Gnome discourages the traditional system tray, when all the other OSs, all the other DEs, and most Gnome based distros use it
  [4]I don't think you've not been using the Windows lately, because the search bar works exactly like you'd expect

1 - thx, I just learned something.
3 - maybe but, honest question, why are they needed, i.e. what problem do they solve?
4 - exactly - win search bar works as search bar. I still have well ordered desktop/tray icons on my win machines.
In gnome/mac, super->'write' is pretty much a shortcut, e.g. super->f (or fi)->enter opens firefox for me.

[JackLilhammers]

1 - thx, I just learned something.
3 - maybe but, honest question, why are they needed, i.e. what problem do they solve?
4 - exactly - win search bar works as search bar. I still have well ordered desktop/tray icons on my win machines.
In gnome/mac, super->'write' is pretty much a shortcut, e.g. super->f (or fi)->enter opens firefox for me.

You're welcome
I'm stating the obvious here, but for the sake of clarity they're the common way of keeping track of desktop application running "in background".
Anyway, it's not much the problem they solve, but the familiarity they've gained over the years and across all platforms.

Yeah, that works on Windows too, exactly like that. I know Windows search used to suck, but they've been working on it.
It's naive to think that they're not working to improve their desktop as people are doing on Linux.