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GTK4 Toolkit Seeing More Improvements To Its OpenGL Renderer

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  • #11
    Originally posted by Setif View Post

    Platform support via backing renderers:
    Mac OS X: in progress
    iOS: planned
    If you look in the details, you'll see they already have at least GL ES2 (and are working on ES3):

    Level of OpenGL ES support via backing renderers:
    .
    Metal
    OpenGL ES 2.0 complete
    OpenGL ES 3.0 in progress
    .
    The reason why it had such a low priority for so long is becaue GL ES works natively on macOS and iOS. Of course now it got in light as probably Apple will remove GL ES together with the desktop GL.
    Last edited by Ladis; 24 January 2021, 10:37 PM.

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    • #12
      I have a better solution don't use macos or apple produts

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      • #13
        You know I've always wondered about this focus on using opengl in Mac OS with Gtk, because for a few years now Apple has been calling opengl depreciated yet not removing it. I'm not sure it's wise to be using something that's clearly marked for removal, and given Apple's insistence that it can do a graphics API themselves instead of investing where all the industry focuse is (Vulkan).... I am stuck wondering if there is a point.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by Duve View Post
          You know I've always wondered about this focus on using opengl in Mac OS with Gtk, because for a few years now Apple has been calling opengl depreciated yet not removing it. I'm not sure it's wise to be using something that's clearly marked for removal, and given Apple's insistence that it can do a graphics API themselves instead of investing where all the industry focuse is (Vulkan).... I am stuck wondering if there is a point.
          Let me breaking it down for you then.

          OpenGL works on every platform GTK runs on. It's the only accelerated rendering API we have on Linux that is guaranteed to work on a vast majority of systems and configurations. Writing a renderer for a different graphics engine requires substantial effort to maintain and fragments the investments we make in performance. That said, my primary purpose for GL renderer improvements is so that it could serve as an example for designing other renderers (for example Metal).

          I look forward to your patches.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by Setif View Post

            Is it available for general public? (link)
            Here:
            https://tech-en.netlify.app/articles...018/index.html

            As you can see OpenGL version string on Apple M1 Mac is something like: "4.1 Metal". It's different compared to Intel based Macs where there is no Metal in version strings.

            About availability for general public - depends what do you mean by "available for general public". You still can run OpenGL applications on M1 Mac so I guess it is. Even Apple in their documentations mentions that OpenGL is still available on Apple silicon.
            Last edited by dragon321; 25 January 2021, 07:52 PM.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by Alexmitter View Post
              I would not even start using MoltenVK in such a case. At the end they have to write a thousand workarounds in the Vulkan renderer to support this Modern to Not-Modern API Translator. It would be the same situation as with the Shell and Nvidias horrible bug fest driver all over again. But unlike Apple, Nvidia at least has some decency to help with issues, so this is a proper lost cause.
              The problem with emulating Vulkan on Metal is emulating the 'legacy features' (geometry shaders etc), not emulating the modern bits of Vulkan.
              So it's actually the 'not modern' parts of other APIs that are causing problems.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by elduderino View Post

                Let me breaking it down for you then.

                OpenGL works on every platform GTK runs on. It's the only accelerated rendering API we have on Linux that is guaranteed to work on a vast majority of systems and configurations. Writing a renderer for a different graphics engine requires substantial effort to maintain and fragments the investments we make in performance. That said, my primary purpose for GL renderer improvements is so that it could serve as an example for designing other renderers (for example Metal).
                Ok, you not looking at something. In fact you are dancing around it.
                It's depreciated in Mac OS. It's not being used and frankly at any point Apple can remove it from the system. It's not like Mac OS has a market like gaming to keep it alive and they have their own graphic's API at this point. I get GTK not having anything else at this point to rely on, mostly because its an issue of licensing, but it still remains in a shaky position because at any moment, on any upgrade... opengl could be gone, and as far as I have seen on MacOS, few will miss it.

                On Linux it makes a ton more sense since their is a mostly complete system and their are several Vulkan compatibly layers. Mac OS doesn't have that and Apple... will be Apple which does mean that it will likely hold GTK hostage on it's own platform. Or not care at all as it removes opengl.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by Duve View Post
                  On Linux it makes a ton more sense since their is a mostly complete system and their are several Vulkan compatibly layers. Mac OS doesn't have that and Apple... will be Apple which does mean that it will likely hold GTK hostage on it's own platform. Or not care at all as it removes opengl.
                  Apple themselves just released a 4.1 Core compatible OpenGL built on Metal for the M1. I highly doubt that is going anywhere for some time. And even if it were, we'd be able to do Zink there (and macOS is almost certainly the reason Valve is funding it's development).

                  That said, would I like a Metal renderer? Sure. Is someone going to show up to write it? Who knows. I don't actually use mac beyond porting GTK.

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