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Progress On The GNOME 40 Shell Continues At Full Speed

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  • #31
    Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
    IMHO, it still won't be up to par with with Plasma, Cinnamon, or Mate in regards to efficient multitasking. For me, any work involving three or more programs feels clunky and slower on GNOME; like jumping between a web browser, a terminal, a text editor, and a file browser which I seem to do a lot.
    Press "super" to open overview. Drag 3 of these windows each to a different workspace. Close overview. Now you can navigate between them using super+pgup/super+pgdown. Not as good as having 2 monitors, but maybe better than usual windows-like multitasking when clicking on app's icon on taskbar.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Khrundel View Post
      Press "super" to open overview. Drag 3 of these windows each to a different workspace. Close overview. Now you can navigate between them using super+pgup/super+pgdown. Not as good as having 2 monitors, but maybe better than usual windows-like multitasking when clicking on app's icon on taskbar.
      But that workflow doesn't work if you have two screens! If you change a workspace, it'll change on both screens.

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      • #33
        No matter how Allan tries to be elegant in explaining the design, it all still reads like an incredible slap in the face.
        On the design side, we’ve been reviewing the feedback that has been provided on the design so far, and are tracking the main points as they’ve emerged.
        Doesn't say from where.

        This is all really valuable, but we’d also suggest that people wait to try the new design before jumping to conclusions about it.

        ...

        If you’re concerned about potential disruption, we’d encourage you to wait to try the design, and see how it behaves in practice. You might be surprised at how seamless the transition is.
        I'm 100% sure I've already read this in other occasions regarding GNOME. To me it reads like "hey please wait and let us force this onto you so that by the time this is finished and distributions are pushing it, you won't have a say in any of it".
        This is the most insulting bit.

        As we progress it will become easier for people to get involved both in terms of design and development.
        No word on how poor souls with full time jobs can effectively achieve this. Are we supposed to track development branches on GitLab?

        Argh, change!
        Insulting. Never treat your users like spoiled children. This is serious, people can use GNOME in a professional environment or simply be accustomed to the good things of the status quo; throwing those into the bin is what is being lamented, not "argh, change".

        Everything about the shell remains the same except for the overview, and even that is structurally the same as the previous version. The overview contains the same key elements – windows overview, search, the dash, the app grid – which are accessed in the same sequence as before. The old features that are tied to muscle memory will work just as before: the super key will open the overview, search will function as before, and the existing shortcuts for workspaces will continue to be supported.
        That's a lie if I ever saw one.

        How the current shell works is like this: Super leads me to a succinct overview of everything that's running, plus a complete overview of the current workspace; the same screen contains all the information I want, without needing to scroll anything in any direction.
        If I want to take a peek at all workspaces, by the time I press Super I'm already looking at the right side of the screen. I can see up to six workspace previews in a useful manner. I can drag and drop a windows from the sixth workspace all the way up to the first (sometimes this happens and is more efficient than using the keyboard) with minimal cursors movement.
        If I want to take a peek at the order of apps on the dash to bring one up via Super+Number (thanks to an extension, of course), by the time I press Super I'm already looking at the left side of the screen.

        How the new shell is supposed to work is like this: you press Super to start navigating to where you want to be, then take one or more actions toward that goal. Having workspaces laid out horizontally means that you can see how many of them, two? One and a half in any direction? So you definitely must scroll if you want to take a peek at a distant workspace. Or press the grid to get to the previews, which is one more press than before.
        How is this retaining "muscle memory"? Rhetorical question. Sometimes I'm led to believe these people don't even use GNOME Shell all that much.

        One piece of feedback that we got from initial testing is that testers often didn’t notice a massive difference with the new design.
        But who are they and what is their background? No transparency!

        Users should bear in mind that some of the improvements are particularly relevant to new rather than existing users – there are some positive impacts which you might not personally benefit from.
        New users from where? The USA? Any other nation with a big percentage of iPadOS and macOS market share?
        Sure, I would be OK with GNOME making bold decisions to simplify the design and make it more accessible to everyone all around the world, at least it would make some sense. This is not it.

        In contrast, the old shell design places launching on the periphery and does not guide the user into their session as effectively.
        While the argument of a better boot experience is reasonable, I find this bit to be quite disingenuous. Yes, the "old does not guide the user into their session as effectively", but then in actual use it means that it gets out of the way, making use of as much space as possible to show what really matters: currently open windows.
        Just accept that launching and navigating what's already open are two different things. This fixation on spatial models where everything is connected to everything might be good for first time users but is detrimental in the long run. Why not take this page from macOS' book as well?

        We also aim to provide another post with details on our user research in the not too distant future.
        Looking forward to such tests showing the different tastes of people from all over the world contributing their view of what a desktop UI should feel like.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by jeffgus View Post

          When I first started Linux/Unix back in the mid-90's, the virtual desktop was the most useful feature in the UI. Back then I was running fvwm2 (on Linux or Solaris via a X-Terminal). FVWM was pretty basic, but it had virtual desktop. Since then, using a UI without a virtual desktop makes me feel claustrophobic. I'll always associate Unix/Linux with virtual desktops. It took far too long for Windows to add the feature.
          Yeah I feel the same. Workspaces were a big reason why I really liked macOS and later on GNOME as well. My workflow is heavily based on switching between workspaces for my browser, editor and other applications that I keep around that take up the whole screen.

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          • #35
            Incredible how Gnome Dev Team lacks every sense of:
            - Taste
            - Practicality
            - Reality
            - Humbleness

            The best thing of Gnome 3.0 was the way it handled dynamic desktops. And OF COURSE they are going to screw it in version 40!
            "Let's double down on shitty Tablet interface for a keyboard+mouse usecase!"

            Seriously... the only explanation is that Apple and/or M$ have infiltrated Gnome devteam to fuck the FLOSS ecosystem from the inside ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Cape View Post
              Seriously... the only explanation is that Apple and/or M$ have infiltrated Gnome devteam to fuck the FLOSS ecosystem from the inside ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
              I don't think so. Both Windows and Mac os have way better usability than Gnome.
              Of course it depends on the user taste, but both Windows and Mac os:
              • Are familiar
              • Are snappier
              • Have the system tray
              • Have the standard windows buttons
              • Don't use hamburger menus
              • Have desktop icons
              • Have nicer lockscreens
              • Don't put the action buttons above the message you read before choosing the action
              • Don't waste space with a tablet like topbar
              • Require less mouse clicks to do stuff
              Some of these things can be fixed with extensions, but the fact that the desktop used by 99% of the people provide them out of the box is incredibly annoyng

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              • #37
                Despite all the hate it gets, deepin's overview works perfectly. It's intuitive to both beginners and advanced users alike and doesn't disrupt too much from the gnome's current workflow since it merely trades the vertical workspaces for horizontal ones.

                It feels like all of the issues with design arises from Gnome's adamant decision to have an empty desktop and an activities menu as the default. Letting the dash's menu load the application menu makes more sense than trying to fit everything into one design paradigm.

                If Gnome's target audience is only advanced / power users, I don't think there will be much grumbling. The problem is primarily gnome is the defacto standard for most distros and is nowhere near beginner friendly. Suddenly, I can sympathise so much more with Ubuntu's decision to build Unity.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by dbkblk View Post
                  But that workflow doesn't work if you have two screens! If you change a workspace, it'll change on both screens.
                  With two screens you usually don't need this. And workspaces work with first display only. At least with vanilla gnome 3.38.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Khrundel View Post
                    Press "super" to open overview. Drag 3 of these windows each to a different workspace. Close overview. Now you can navigate between them using super+pgup/super+pgdown. Not as good as having 2 monitors, but maybe better than usual windows-like multitasking when clicking on app's icon on taskbar.
                    I do the something similar on KDE with their Activities feature to keep my taskbar from getting too clustered with random programs. I group common applications in each Activity and I can switch between them with super+tab or super+shift+tab...Default, Games, Multimedia, Projects, and Sys Tray (GTK stuff that doesn't minimize to a taskbar...PulseEffects).

                    The cool thing about Activities is it works with multiple monitors and each Activity has multiple workspaces. Each Activity is like its own separate session running within the main session. Very handy when utilized. GNOME, and most other DEs for that matter, doesn't come close to offering that.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by dbkblk View Post
                      I really feel the same as you, but I use XFCE in a very minimalistic way.
                      GNOME is really beautiful and everything is well integrated, I used it for months, but honestly, I've found that the animations and the way windows are changed end up being exhausting.
                      This feels like there is some traction that retains from changing windows. It's either hard to know where to locate the window you want to open or hard for the eyes because there are animations everywhere. Also, the icon view is not efficient because this is ordered by name (Gnome 38 improved that, but still.).
                      The worst part is that opening the app launcher set all screens to exposé mode and that is really hard for the eye-strain.
                      I've tried Dash to dock, Dash to panel, disable animations, Arc Menu, but in the end, the workflow is never optimal. That's just my personal view on it.
                      I feel the same way about GNOME. Three weeks. Three weeks is the longest I've ran GNOME before going back to Plasma. I mean I can plugin GNOME up and make it work, but I can also plugin up Cyberpunk 2077 and make that work. I'm just saying that my desktop isn't Skyrim and a bunch of user made mods shouldn't be necessary for a good experience. Some of us just want to put in a good game an play it; not put in an OK game and plugin it into a good game.

                      Funnily enough, one of the first tweaks I do on Plasma is to increase the animation speeds. I like cool effects, but not at the expense of productivity. That's why I'm still into blur and semi-transparency -- being able to see behind my window increases multitask-ability.

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