GTK 4.0 Toolkit Officially Released

[Anarchy]

That's exactly what it looks like, without Red Hat and Canonical it would likely die.

The long decline after 2010 until the uptick in 2018 also marks when Ubuntu had stopped using Gnome and switched to Unity with 11.04 until they switched to Gnome 3 with 17.10.

It does make me question the future of native applications on Linux, though. It takes a single manager to fire a few people, or they can leave by themselves, to derail the entire development and support of gtk/gnome. For the time being, red hat seems confident in Linux as an enterprise "desktop platform", but the way they've been moving toward Linux on the server and the cloud, I wonder if the end of gtk/gnome is near.

[kpedersen]

no language will help with that. right use of c++ will make writing correct multithreaded programs much easier.

Following on from this, C and C++ also has vastly many more thread debugging tools than other languages. Even just the ones from Intel are more than many other language communities combined!

So yeah, we will make mistakes but at least we can track them down and fix them within reasonable time.

[pal666]

My problem with C++ is that the standards group seems to be hell bent on making C++ into an unreadable mess

standards group has to evolve language while keeping backwards compatibility. clueless commenters just have to cry and demand pony.

for GUI development what the world needs is a better Python.

certainly for any serious development world needs at least something statically typed, i.e. python is last thing you'd think

[pal666]

The compiler is allowed to silently delete your code instead of failing

that's what optimizers do(delete your code instead of failing). if you want unoptimized code, don't turn on optimizations. but better pass c++ programs to your c++ compiler(c++ program has no ubs by definition)

[mdedetrich]

the matter of fact is, providing abi is much simpler task than writing application itself, i.e. you are optimizing for wrong metric. but hey, it's expected from rust zealots

Not for a GUI library its not (at least if you don't want the API to be retarded).

In any case, this has nothing to do with Rust zeolots. As pointed out elsewhere, Rust is picking up steam in Gnome and is also being considered in the Linux kernel (main issue here isn't the language but rather getting rustc to work with Linux's build system).

[pal666]

Anyway, huge pain points in GUI toolkits is multi threading. C++ won't help here. Sure, there are mutexes, however, the language won't help you to make sure everything is threadsafe.

no language will help with that. right use of c++ will make writing correct multithreaded programs much easier.

I recall multithreading being a huge PITA in Qt.

qt is bad example of c++ library, i don't even consider it c++

[pal666]

The ABI problem is not only about the breakages, but also the incompatibilities.
One can compile a C library with GCC and link it with Clang, or vise versa, but this won't work for C++.

it will work with c++ because they use same itanium abi. what won't work is mixing of different standard libraries for example, but it will not work with c libraries too

[kpedersen]

kpedersen It’s GTK these days. The + was removed some time ago.

I could simply have been referring to Gtk+2. Outside of toy desktop environments that is still vastly the most popular. Version 3 took too long to correctly support other platforms so it missed the window for a number of our projects.

[USER="68985"]
Of course Debian’s GNOME team is super fast but as a general rule your mind processing shouldn’t be slower than Debian packaging..

Nah, they are really just inconsistent (like most things in Linux). Check out part of the rust bindings here:

https://packages.debian.org/buster/librust-gtk+dox-dev

https://packages.debian.org/buster/librust-gtk-dev

"Rust Bindings for the GTK+ 3 library"

I don't care about "modern" names at all. Consistency is more important to me. I think that is generally agreed upon by many projects (https://openports.se/x11/gtk+4). It will probably remain Gtk+ long after Gtk actually becomes obsolete and replaced with another software.

[pal666]

If you consider name mangling as part of the ABI (which you reasonably should) then it does break very often.

first, mangling is not part of c++, i.e. imbeciles can't say "c++ breaks abi" in this case, they can only say "gcc breaks abi" for example. second, it doesn't break very often

The matter of fact is, C++ is much more complex than C which makes it harder to provide a reasonably stable ABI (in practical terms).

the matter of fact is, providing abi is much simpler task than writing application itself, i.e. you are optimizing for wrong metric. but hey, it's expected from rust zealots

[pal666]

Well I just realized this will not be a problem for an elitism community

he is from imbecilic community rather than elitist one