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  • #61
    Originally posted by pal666 View Post
    the matter of fact is, providing abi is much simpler task than writing application itself, i.e. you are optimizing for wrong metric. but hey, it's expected from rust zealots
    Not for a GUI library its not (at least if you don't want the API to be retarded).

    In any case, this has nothing to do with Rust zeolots. As pointed out elsewhere, Rust is picking up steam in Gnome and is also being considered in the Linux kernel (main issue here isn't the language but rather getting rustc to work with Linux's build system).

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    • #62
      Originally posted by andreano View Post
      The compiler is allowed to silently delete your code instead of failing
      that's what optimizers do(delete your code instead of failing). if you want unoptimized code, don't turn on optimizations. but better pass c++ programs to your c++ compiler(c++ program has no ubs by definition)

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      • #63
        Originally posted by wizard69 View Post
        My problem with C++ is that the standards group seems to be hell bent on making C++ into an unreadable mess
        standards group has to evolve language while keeping backwards compatibility. clueless commenters just have to cry and demand pony.
        Originally posted by wizard69 View Post
        for GUI development what the world needs is a better Python.
        certainly for any serious development world needs at least something statically typed, i.e. python is last thing you'd think

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        • #64
          Originally posted by pal666 View Post
          no language will help with that. right use of c++ will make writing correct multithreaded programs much easier.
          Following on from this, C and C++ also has vastly many more thread debugging tools than other languages. Even just the ones from Intel are more than many other language communities combined!

          So yeah, we will make mistakes but at least we can track them down and fix them within reasonable time.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by calc View Post

            That's exactly what it looks like, without Red Hat and Canonical it would likely die.

            The long decline after 2010 until the uptick in 2018 also marks when Ubuntu had stopped using Gnome and switched to Unity with 11.04 until they switched to Gnome 3 with 17.10.
            It does make me question the future of native applications on Linux, though. It takes a single manager to fire a few people, or they can leave by themselves, to derail the entire development and support of gtk/gnome. For the time being, red hat seems confident in Linux as an enterprise "desktop platform", but the way they've been moving toward Linux on the server and the cloud, I wonder if the end of gtk/gnome is near.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by pal666 View Post
              no language will help with that. right use of c++ will make writing correct multithreaded programs much easier.
              qt is bad example of c++ library, i don't even consider it c++
              It's a feature imho. Qt API uses jest the right, minimal subset of C++. Would you really prefer std::function and std::bind clutter instead of connect and slots? Would that really make it more readable and easier to use?
              ​​​​​​Out of curiosity, ​do you consider boost as good example of C++ library?
              Last edited by reavertm; 17 December 2020, 09:51 AM.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by reavertm View Post
                Would you really prefer std::function and std::bind clutter instead of connect and slots? Would that really make it more readable and easier to use?
                Well it *would* actually make it standard C++. I feel that is important.

                It is not an easy task to maintain an old MOC toolchain just to build a slightly older Qt3 based program. The same will be true in the future when trying to maintain your current Qt4-5 projects. Standard C++ is the key here and Qt drops the ball a little when it comes to this.
                Last edited by kpedersen; 17 December 2020, 09:55 AM.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by pal666 View Post
                  no language will help with that
                  Well, it depends... Rust will make sure that you don't accidentally share references across threads. And thus, racy reference dangling will simply not happen.
                  The prime pattern for multi-threading in rust is message passing. There is even a nice wrapper for GTK called relm, which uses a model/view architecture.


                  Originally posted by pal666 View Post
                  qt is bad example of c++ library, i don't even consider it c++
                  Maybe, but it is THE example for a c++ based GUI toolkit.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Danielsan View Post
                    The real question is... Will adopt XFCE4 the GTK4 before the GTK6 will be released?
                    Yes. DebianXfce will return from the dead to oversee GTK4 adoption and restart his campaign for Xfce world dominance. In fact, rumor has it that he already started GTK5 adoption!

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                    • #70
                      Congratulations Gtk developers
                      And thanks for finally removing the + postfix. Maybe the C++ bindings are now free to use "gtkpp" instead of "gtkmm"?

                      Nothing is wrong in using C as toolkit language. In long term it serves a stable base and a good point to add language bindings upon it. Especially as C++ developer I appreciate the possibility in using the C++ bindings or even plain C to reach for the inner stuff.

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