Firefox 83 vs. Chrome 87 On Intel Tiger Lake + AMD Renoir Under Linux

[brad0]

At least we have a google free alternative. Almost everything now has chrome as base ..edge Vivaldi brave...Mozilla's Firefox ist the last major resistance against an all google internet.

At least we have Mozilla free alternative. Everything they do is a poorly designed bloated mess. Slow and crappy.

[birdie]

You're reading a whole lot into my comment.

I've been here on Phoronix for quite some time you may have noticed. Too often I see self-entitled open source fans who make huge demands as if them using Open Source makes them some sort of privileged people. Again I'm not talking about you personally - it's just been the trend recently. I remember ten years ago people were a lot more modest and didn't post "F-ck NVIDIA" in each thread. I don't even understand why this shift has occured. Maybe it's because of Reddit.

[duby229]

I've been here on Phoronix for quite some time you may have noticed. Too often I see self-entitled open source fans who make huge demands as if them using Open Source makes them some sort of privileged people. Again I'm not talking about you personally - it's just been the trend recently. I remember ten years ago people were a lot more modest and didn't post "F-ck NVIDIA" in each thread. I don't even understand why this shift has occured. Maybe it's because of Reddit.

Well, at least speaking for the nVidia matter, it happened because they got caught using kernel interfaces to hide kernel modifications in their binaries. It's an obvious GPL violation and they've attempted it too many times.

[duby229]

At least we have Mozilla free alternative. Everything they do is a poorly designed bloated mess. Slow and crappy.

Poorly designed? So I guess you think all the Rust work put into FF is poorly designed... Mozilla is one of the very few corporations -actually- working to replace C/C++...

At least FF isn't just another nth iteration of webkit... (I can't wait until some webkit-derived hack comes up that brings down all iterations of it.)

[birdie]

Well, at least speaking for the nVidia matter, it happened because they got caught using kernel interfaces to hide kernel modifications in their binaries. It's an obvious GPL violation and they've attempted it too many times.

Originally Linus opined about NVIDIA this way for totally different reasons: https://youtu.be/MShbP3OpASA?t=2894

Absolute most Linux users couldn't care less about the company "abusing" GPL because it's mostly BS. What they do care about is proper support for their hardware.

[brad0]

Poorly designed? So I guess you think all the Rust work put into FF is poorly designed... Mozilla is one of the very few corporations -actually- working to replace C/C++...

At least FF isn't just another nth iteration of webkit... (I can't wait until some webkit-derived hack comes up that brings down all iterations of it.)

Yes. I do. Just creating more of an unportable fucking mess. Just working to replace C/C++ for the sake of doing so is moronicly stupid.

Saying something like that is even stupider.

[duby229]

Originally Linus opined about NVIDIA this way for totally different reasons: https://youtu.be/MShbP3OpASA?t=2894

Absolute most Linux users couldn't care less about the company "abusing" GPL because it's mostly BS. What they do care about is proper support for their hardware.

Oh yeah, we all remember that garbage Optimus... I sure do...

GPL violations are not BS, they are real and they are serious.

[jrch2k8]

Let's be honest: does the fact that Firefox runs JS slower than Chrome by ~20% really affect your life or make it impossible to complete certain web related tasks?

Sometimes people are blowing things out of proportions for absolutely no reasons. Mozilla doesn't take your money. They don't force you use their web browser. Have some modesty and decency - it's a free product which collects far less info about you than Google does and which, unlike Chrome, is actively trying to eradicate certain bad things about the web, e.g. pervasive surveillance.

Honestly you are right but my problem is every iteration of Firefox keep getting crashier and crashier where chromium and brave get more rock solid for me every release, Honestly i use firefox still because the theming and the sync but my patience is growing very thin lately.

Tested:
Firefox 83 arch release, Fedora 33 wayland release and official mozilla tar.gz, all of them crash randomly all the time.

[Mez']

Let's be honest: does the fact that Firefox runs JS slower than Chrome by ~20% really affect your life or make it impossible to complete certain web related tasks?

Sometimes people are blowing things out of proportions for absolutely no reasons. Mozilla doesn't take your money. They don't force you use their web browser. Have some modesty and decency - it's a free product which collects far less info about you than Google does and which, unlike Chrome, is actively trying to eradicate certain bad things about the web, e.g. pervasive surveillance.

Plus, Firefox has so many customization options (settings, css and about:config), that you can easily get your workflow 25-30% more efficient (while you are very limited in Chrome). In the end, after some tweaking, I'm still doing stuff 5-10% faster on Firefox, even with a slower page loading/rendering.

A single example would be the lack of favorite button in Chrome. You either have an additional bar that eats up space and makes you uncomfortable browsing on a laptop or you need to go through an ill-positioned menu (and its submenus). Even Edge on Linux has a favorite button.

Same with the lack of video autoplay blocking.
And I could go on and on and on.

Chrome is just good at loading and rendering fast. They stripped it down to the max to make it good at loading pages. But other than that, it's mostly an empty shell. Let's be honest, it's not doing a good job. So much so that Edge (only chromium-based for a year, and a month old on Linux) is already head and shoulders above it, just by adding a few options (favorite button, gtk integration - which makes it integrate well with Unite extension or adapt to left/right buttons position, etc...).

These benchmarks do not tell the big picture, eg. the quality of a browser, or its ability to fulfill use cases and workflows fast.

[birdie]

Honestly you are right but my problem is every iteration of Firefox keep getting crashier and crashier where chromium and brave get more rock solid for me every release, Honestly i use firefox still because the theming and the sync but my patience is growing very thin lately.

Tested:
Firefox 83 arch release, Fedora 33 wayland release and official mozilla tar.gz, all of them crash randomly all the time.

I haven't had a single Firefox crash in the past at least three years.

Oh, you're using a toy graphical server for those who like experiments. And on top of that you're using a highly unstable distro. Case closed, sorry, I don't give a fuck. I prefer to use software solutions which offer the best reliability and the most functions - Wayland is anything but. And that's X.org for me.