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Firefox 83 vs. Chrome 87 On Intel Tiger Lake + AMD Renoir Under Linux

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    pmorph
    Senior Member

  • pmorph
    replied
    Firefox has been pretty solid here as well for the last couple of years (before that there indeed was a crashy period).
    I also believe Mozilla is on the right track with Rust. Just betting on skillful programmers to avoid security issues won't cut it, there needs to be progress on all fronts.

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  • Zan Lynx
    Senior Member

  • Zan Lynx
    replied
    Originally posted by jrch2k8 View Post

    Honestly you are right but my problem is every iteration of Firefox keep getting crashier and crashier where chromium and brave get more rock solid for me every release, Honestly i use firefox still because the theming and the sync but my patience is growing very thin lately.

    Tested:
    Firefox 83 arch release, Fedora 33 wayland release and official mozilla tar.gz, all of them crash randomly all the time.
    This is your system somehow.

    This Ubuntu 20.04 system with a Ryzen 3900X and Vega 56 can run Firefox basically forever. I may have had a crash a few weeks ago. I don't remember. It's certainly not common. Gnome Wayland. I also run Fedora 33 on a Dell XPS15 laptop. Also Gnome Wayland. No Firefox crashes.

    One thing I've been finding is people running Ryzen systems that set their RAM to high speeds and it *seems* to test well. But in real life it does not always work.

    Some of these things that break the system are high load on all SMT threads. And PCIe DMA transfers. A GPU even at PCIe version 3 can suck down a ton of RAM bandwidth. It's even worse with PCIe 4.0. With a RAM overclock and even the slightest amount of sag in the SoC power the Ryzen starts to provide corrupted RAM data.

    I used to have IOMMU faults from the Vega 56. When I switched from 3,600 MHz RAM using ASUS DOCP settings (that's how they convert XMP profiles to AMD) to 2,666 MHz ECC using standard JEDEC, all of my RAM and GPU problems disappeared. And yet the 3,600 MHz RAM passed Memtest perfectly for 24 hours. Probably because it was not simultaneously using 24 compute threads and doing NVMe and GPU DMA.

    I have not done a lot of RAM overclocking on Intel systems so I don't know how they operate. But overclocking is overclocking. It is untested and unstable. Weird problems is why I stopped running my Intel 5960X at 4.1 GHz and now just run it at stock 3.3. The weird and strange issues were not worth it.

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  • duby229
    Senior Member

  • duby229
    replied
    Originally posted by birdie View Post

    What kernel modifications for f--k's sake? Have you seen them? Can you prove that? You're poorly parroting someone parroting someone else without even understanding the issue at hand. That's normally called blind irrational fanatical hatred.

    The basic premise of GPLv2 is that you cannot link to GPLed code without releasing your own source code and NVIDIA does not link to the kernel. You, as a user, do it - NVIDIA makes its own users infringe on the license and I'm OK with that because otherwise I won't be able to use Linux on my PC.

    You on the other hand can go enjoy incomplete open source AMD drivers which are not bug-free (in fact there are dozens of critical bugs) and which do not support all the features found in their proprietary drivers. So much for fucking freedom and open source. You're living a lie. Good luck with that.
    Oh wow! Just wow!

    You are so wrong it's literally stupid.
    nVidia does in fact have the right to write any code they want and to license it in any way they want. But, they definitely do -NOT- have the right to -distribute- GPL infringing code. It is -NOT- the end users responsibility it -IS- nVidia's!

    Here is just one of many of Linus' explanations...
    https://groups.google.com/g/fa.linux..._P2xaGEJ?pli=1

    EDIT: In that same conversation, here is Linus explaining what a derived work is. Any module that uses internal interfaces are clearly derived works, which -IS- a GPL violation. Which would be fine as long as they didn't distribute those modules to end users, but nVidia -DOES- distribute their modules to end users...
    https://groups.google.com/g/fa.linux...m/QiaTaMqKmcMJ

    EDIT: If the kernel had adopted GPLv3 then -nobody-, not even nVidia, would have any rights to distribute -any- binary kernel modules. That's the -ENTIRE- reason why Linus uses a GPLv2 Only license for the linux kernel. With it binary kernel modules are still allowed as long as they can stand on their own and don't require internal interfaces.
    duby229
    Senior Member
    Last edited by duby229; 30 November 2020, 01:32 PM.

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  • Vistaus
    Senior Member

  • Vistaus
    replied
    Originally posted by CochainComplex View Post

    At least we have a google free alternative. Almost everything now has chrome as base ..edge Vivaldi brave...Mozilla's Firefox ist the last major resistance against an all google internet.
    Depends on how you look at "Google-free". Codebase-wise, yes. But Mozilla does get a lot of money from Google, so it's not like Firefox is entirely Google-free.

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  • birdie
    Senior Member

  • birdie
    replied
    Originally posted by duby229 View Post

    That's not true... nVidia got caught using internal interfaces to hide their kernel modifications... Like I said when a symbol gets marked as GPL-only it's because somebody got caught using it in their proprietary module. And that's what happened again this time just like it's happened dozens of other times in the past. nVidia keeps putting themselves in that situation.

    You have to look up what Linus believes what a "derived work" is, if uses internal interfaces such that it hides modifications in its binary, then it's a derived work. That's the definition of a GPL violation.
    What kernel modifications for f--k's sake? Have you seen them? Can you prove that? You're poorly parroting someone parroting someone else without even understanding the issue at hand. That's normally called blind irrational fanatical hatred.

    The basic premise of GPLv2 is that you cannot link to GPLed code without releasing your own source code and NVIDIA does not link to the kernel. You, as a user, do it - NVIDIA makes its own users infringe on the license and I'm OK with that because otherwise I won't be able to use Linux on my PC.

    You on the other hand can go enjoy incomplete open source AMD drivers which are not bug-free (in fact there are dozens of critical bugs, I welcome you to inspect: FreeDesktop Bugzilla and kernel bugzilla) and which do not support all the features found in their proprietary drivers. So much for fucking freedom and open source. You're living a lie. Good luck with that.

    And before you say "Open Source drivers mean anyone can fix issues in them" - well, any software engineer from Intel and AMD who has been pushed to solve them because for both companies their Linux drivers are a f-king afterthought and the least of their concerns.
    birdie
    Senior Member
    Last edited by birdie; 30 November 2020, 12:38 PM.

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  • duby229
    Senior Member

  • duby229
    replied
    Originally posted by birdie View Post

    The 6900XT costs more than I earn in two months. Sorry, cannot afford it. An yeah, I don't get the point of wasting my money on new shiny things when my old "bad" hardware works just fine.



    NVIDIA currently supports kernels 5.9 and yet to be released 5.10. Not sure what you're talking about. They had a small delay in regard to supporting kernel 5.9 because some obsessed kernel hackers hid certain kernel interfaces but that doesn't happen often.
    That's not true... nVidia got caught using internal interfaces to hide their kernel modifications... Like I said when a symbol gets marked as GPL-only it's because somebody got caught using it in their proprietary module. And that's what happened again this time just like it's happened dozens of other times in the past. nVidia keeps putting themselves in that situation.

    You have to look up what Linus believes what a "derived work" is, if uses internal interfaces such that it hides modifications in its binary, then it's a derived work. That's the definition of a GPL violation.

    Leave a comment:

  • Pleota
    Junior Member

  • Pleota
    replied
    Interesting performance comparison. I look forward to the next operating system comparison to see how Firefox performs in each os. With maybe Speedometer thrown in (was not in June comparison).

    Leave a comment:

  • deppman
    Senior Member

  • deppman
    replied
    There has been a few digressions here about both Nvidia and Apple. The irony is that Linux success on ARM will likely come from Nvidia, not Apple. Their Xavier SOC already has 3x the TOPS of the Apple M1 ( 32 vs 11 TOPS), and their next model will likely improve efficiency and CPU performance. All the Tegra devices already all run Linux with optimal acceleration and are far more OSS friendly than Macs ever will be. And now Nvidia is scheduled to acquire ARM. Don't bet on the wrong horse

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  • drakonas777
    Senior Member

  • drakonas777
    replied
    Originally posted by birdie View Post

    Too often I see self-entitled open source fans who make huge demands as if them using Open Source makes them some sort of privileged people.
    Originally posted by birdie View Post

    We really need to find ways to force Apple to open up a bit and for Apple I see zero reasons to do that.
    LOL

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  • birdie
    Senior Member

  • birdie
    replied
    Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post

    well.... "F-ck NVIDIA" is very sane statement.

    "open source fans who make huge demands as if them using Open Source makes them some sort of privileged people."

    looks like to be a sane statement to.

    i really think YOU are the one who become old man who in fact don't get the point of modern time.

    Buy a radeon RX 6900XT and drop your NVIDIA insanity. to become human again.
    The 6900XT costs more than I earn in two months. Sorry, cannot afford it. An yeah, I don't get the point of wasting my money on new shiny things when my old "bad" hardware works just fine.

    Originally posted by zerothruster View Post

    But they don't get that support on mainstream kernels, do they ? The general situation with nvidia machines is that the binary drivers don't support a current kernel, and apparently nouveau is hampered because nvidia won't release the details in a timely manner. So a year-old nvidia graphics card might mostly work, but only at slow speeds (which seems to matter for the gamers her).
    NVIDIA currently supports kernels 5.9 and yet to be released 5.10. Not sure what you're talking about. They had a small delay in regard to supporting kernel 5.9 because some obsessed kernel hackers hid certain kernel interfaces but that doesn't happen often.

    Leave a comment:

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