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KWinFT 5.20 With Aims For Better Wayland/X11 Experience Than KDE Plasma 5.20's KWin

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  • #21
    I wonder how it compare with kwin-lowlatency. Also I hope it will back fullscreen undirect support because stopping whole compositor isn't prettiest solution.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by romangg View Post

      Thank you very much for testing.

      I'm somewhat ashamed there was still a crash when switching off the display with the power button. It would be great if you can open an issue ticket for that in KWinFT including a backtrace. I've written some guide recently how to get such a backtrace: Logging and Debugging KWinFT
      I will try to get a backtrace soon. Thanks for the guide, I'm sure I will learn something new!

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      • #23
        Originally posted by romangg View Post
        That being said short-term improvements can also be important, a balance must be found, but in KDE such things just happen without coordination.
        If you can get the Fedora KDE team onboard I think that would be a big push for KWinFT.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by tildearrow View Post
          Stealing my job! I wonder whether they are going to add exclusive full-screen (unredirection) as well...
          Originally posted by romangg View Post
          Sadly there is so much to do.
          I haven't been keeping in the loop, so those two projects are unrelated and not at parity? Is there much point in continuing maintenance of the kwin-lowlatency project (assuming tildarrow still does), or are those improvements something KWinFT may eventually adopt when Roman has time? (or some community contributors help out)

          Is parity with upstream KWin going to remain, or is that going to be difficult with how the projects are diverging? It seems that from the discussions in this thread, there's already some parts that KWin in 5.20 does (while not so well yet) that KWinFT doesn't (yet).

          My main concern is with the amount of work to get done that Roman doesn't get burnt out and the project if not upstreamed gets stale preventing it from being usable in future Plasma updates? Does Roman have a Patreon or similar? (or is this work sponsored by some company?)

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          • #25
            romangg I may not understand fully the benefits of kwinft with regards to wrapland vs kwayland, but it seems you are using components or at least protocols out of wlroots? Is this correct? Does this mean we are more likely to see wlroots more advanced functionality (such as DRM Leasing) appear in kwinft/wrapland before kwin proper?

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            • #26
              Originally posted by polarathene View Post
              I haven't been keeping in the loop, so those two projects are unrelated and not at parity?
              You are kind of right.
              KWin-lowlatency closely follows upstream, while adding some patches on top.
              On the other hand KWinFT is a complete redesign that has pretty much parted away from upstream.

              Originally posted by polarathene View Post
              Is there much point in continuing maintenance of the kwin-lowlatency project (assuming tildarrow still does), or are those improvements something KWinFT may eventually adopt when Roman has time? (or some community contributors help out)
              I am trying hard to maintain it... but yes, there is.
              They will never bring full-screen unredirection back...

              Is this only because I am the worst developer in Phoronix?
              The last time they talked about my project and I commented on the matter, my comment got lost in the dust and was absolutely disliked; whereas Roman's comment somehow gets all the attention. How come?!

              Originally posted by polarathene View Post
              Is parity with upstream KWin going to remain, or is that going to be difficult with how the projects are diverging? It seems that from the discussions in this thread, there's already some parts that KWin in 5.20 does (while not so well yet) that KWinFT doesn't (yet).
              It is very doubtful... (as mentioned above)
              The patches should really be integrated into upstream soon, because if it diverges more it would just get more complicated...

              Originally posted by polarathene View Post
              My main concern is with the amount of work to get done that Roman doesn't get burnt out and the project if not upstreamed gets stale preventing it from being usable in future Plasma updates? Does Roman have a Patreon or similar? (or is this work sponsored by some company?)
              You know, it would be a completely dumb decision to not upstream the FT patches, considering how it solves several major issues with KWin (multi-monitor and stuttering), putting it on par with Mutter.
              Last edited by tildearrow; 10-16-2020, 02:58 PM.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by tildearrow View Post
                I am trying hard to maintain it... but yes, there is.
                I understand how maintenance can be a burden for such things. I did similar with a project for 1-2 years that was popular within it's small community, but the main devs while acknowledging it had little interest in addressing the issue I was patching (not exactly a bug, just a nice improvement). Was a repetitive process that didn't automate well, annoyingly the XML file parts also had various white-space/formatting inconsistencies (thankfully diff tools can ignore most of it). Someone ended up cloning my github repo and continuing the maintenance themselves (initially without any credit to my original project, attributing it all to themselves).

                Seems you did well though and have community packaging / distributing your updates

                Originally posted by tildearrow View Post
                They will never bring full-screen unredirection back...
                I can't recall too much about the advantages/disadvantages of such. You probably know whatever reasons they have for it are. My understanding is it bypasses compositor to get an increase in performance for fullscreen updates like gaming or media.

                I do remember years ago that in my multi-monitor setup, when I had something fullscreen like a game my other monitors output of the desktop didn't update, only if I alt-tabbed out from the active game on the other monitor. I think it was related to kwin trying to do some perf optimization by disabling compositing or something... was kind of annoying, but for a single monitor I suppose it'd make sense? (or perhaps with Wayland since each monitor is a different output it's a non-issue there?)

                Originally posted by tildearrow View Post
                Is this only because I am the worst developer in Phoronix?
                The last time they talked about my project and I commented on the matter, my comment got lost in the dust and was absolutely disliked; whereas Roman's comment somehow gets all the attention. How come?!
                I guess it's more to do with the scope of his project vs yours.

                Roman is also a more established/reputable developer within the community IIRC, and will get more news articles due to his blog and related projects around KWinFT? Perhaps you're not always recognized as the dev behind the kwin low-latency patch? (I was a bit surprised at first when I learned that fact lol), Phoronix community is also small, I wouldn't worry about it.

                That said, the quality of you as a developer has nothing to do with how much you or your projects get talked about imo. You both contribute value to your communities and that's all that really matters

                If you've got the skills to help out on KWinFT in some manner, perhaps Roman would welcome some assistance / contributions.


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                • #28
                  Originally posted by romangg View Post
                  I wouldn't call (the weekly KDE blog) "spam".
                  That's because you're not a troll, unlike the person you responded to.

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by 144Hz View Post
                    shmerl Code can be re-merged but the communities will most likely stay fragmented. There’s really no way back. Roman claims KDE now puts marketing above engineering. (Hello Weekly blog spam and littering features on top of a broken architecture).
                    Famous words of a 7-days per week forum troll.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by simonsaysthis View Post

                      Famous words of a 7-days per week forum troll.
                      Exactly.

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