Benchmarking Firefox 83 Nightly With "Warp" Against Google Chrome On Linux

[L_A_G]

When you have a nightly build that crashes on tests, I'm going to be of the opinion that it's safe to say that it's a bit premature to be benchmarking it. At least wait until it can pass the tests rather than jumping the gun as badly as this. Nightly builds are after all the kinds of builds where regressions like this are supposed to be discovered and fixed before they're passed on to the general public and not just enthusiasts who like running literal development builds to get the latest features.

[TehCorwiz]

When you have a nightly build that crashes on tests, I'm going to be of the opinion that it's safe to say that it's a bit premature to be benchmarking it. At least wait until it can pass the tests rather than jumping the gun as badly as this. Nightly builds are after all the kinds of builds where regressions like this are supposed to be discovered and fixed before they're passed on to the general public and not just enthusiasts who like running literal development builds to get the latest features.

Absolutely this. This is what nightlies are for, catching regressions and bugs. I'm holding judgement until warp lands in the beta or developer edition.

[ezst036]

... but in actual web pages NOT rendering properly or drop downs or fill in fields not showing up in Firefox but they always do in a Chrome variant such as Brave, not to mention Google Chrome proper. In other words....Im finding more web pages broken in some fashion in Firefox and hardly ever in Chrome or its variants.

As a long term Netscape/Mozilla user, surely this situation reminds you of Internet Explorer roughly 20 years ago. Google Chrome is (today) every bit in the same place, we have come full circle. Maybe some might say Google isn't (quite as) aggressive as Microsoft was back then, but the end result looks identical to me. It's 1998 all over again with a one-browser-internet.

And the damnable thing is....FOSS is being used to drive out freedom and choice in the very FOSS world we cherish. And everyone accepts that either out of sheer ignorance or apathy. Giant Corporations and their paid for Governments that shield them are the very ones building us "free barns" to house their products. And the products are...us.

Agreed. Google has successfully weaponized FOSS to build a new kind of browser monopoly. But as long as people willingly choose to use Chrome or any Chrome/Chromium derivative, everything you describe will get worse in the same way as it kept getting worse in the IE dominance days.

[KaoDome]

But now I AM feeling it and seeing it. And that's NOT just in performance but in actual web pages NOT rendering properly or drop downs or fill in fields not showing up in Firefox but they always do in a Chrome variant such as Brave, not to mention Google Chrome proper. In other words....Im finding more web pages broken in some fashion in Firefox and hardly ever in Chrome or its variants.

And the damnable thing is....FOSS is being used to drive out freedom and choice in the very FOSS world we cherish. And everyone accepts that either out of sheer ignorance or apathy. Giant Corporations and their paid for Governments that shield them are the very ones building us "free barns" to house their products. And the products are...us.

I agree, I have noticed it as well and across different OSes, although I wonder if it has to do with websites (or frameworks) being coded for Chromium and derivatives (just like it was with IE back in the day) instead of using open standards, or if the problem lies with their implementation in Firefox.

Could you elaborate a bit more on this part? - "everyone accepts that either out of sheer ignorance or apathy" [regarding FOSS being used to drive out freedom and choice]

Are you referring to users using any Chromium-based browsers? Or maybe devs contributing to Chromium instead of Firefox? It's tough to convince users to use one thing over another, especially when it's something widespread that works (and even comes preinstalled in many (most?) Android devices).

I don't know what made 3rd parties go for Chromium as a base instead Firefox or continuing with their own thing (Opera, Microsoft), maybe Chrome's dominance or perhaps its performance (it's not like it has to do with licensing, as I understand it the MPL 2 is rather permissive and allows re-licensing), there are but a few browsers based on the Firefox codebase.

Contributing to any of them feels daunting to me, from a coding point of view browsers are vast and complex, but I guess devs tend contribute to what they use. Even if the source is publicly available, most people (virtually all) just want to use the thing.

[muncrief]

I have the same issues as others have cited with desktop Firefox not working correctly on many sites, especially with dialogues. And yes, I've tried many things including turning off all tracking and add blockers, and even temporarily turning off my VPN. But when Firefox doesn't work, it doesn't work. And I haven't found any way to fix it.

To make matters even worse the Android Firefox, which for years was highly rated and preferred by many over Chrome, released a 1/10 complete "update" named "Daylight" that completely destroyed it, and rendered it unusable as well.

I started with Mosaic way back when the Internet first began, and have used Linux since a few years after it was released (though it took many years before I could use it as my primary desktop), and have always done my best to embrace and support open source. But Mozilla has dropped the ball so badly that I can't use any of their browsers any longer.

I sincerely hope they can recover, and understand the myriads of legitimate difficulties they face, but in the end people simply need a working browser, no matter what our ideological preference.

[rawr]

Progress, albeit reverse.. is still progress!

One man's progress is the other man's regress 😋

[CochainComplex]

Operation warpspeed...

[mb_q]

Maybe there is some debug tarpit active in the alpha builds? It would be great to have at least two common tests on PTS and Mozilla's treeherder for some reproducibility sanity check.

[Jumbotron]

Does that still happen with Advanced Tracking Protection off? I've noticed something similar on a few sites since that was enabled by default, but it happens so infrequently I haven't bothered to track down the problem. Firefox is pretty locked down and there are security addons, so there are a lot of things on my side which could be breaking the page.



"Enthusiasm to brown nose corporations" was left out. The unprincipled moderates won, and the software world is backsliding.

That too. But I just rolled up "Enthusiasm to brown nose corporations" into my statement of Governments giving shield protections to these corporations. Particularly in America, but increasingly worldwide, as these Global Corporate Behemoths span nations and nationalities crossing borders and being beholden to none, there is now a kind of Government/Corporate Cartel. We here in America complain loudly and bitterly about Russian oligarchs and the oil Cartel of the Middle East. And yet we are ruled in America not by political parties but a Government backed Corporate Cartel.

In the old days Benito Mussolini called that "Fascism". Now with Trump and various Trump inspired para-military forces out there ranging from the "Boogaloo Bois", "The 3 Percenters", the "Proud Boys", the "Patriot Prayer" group, "The Oath Keepers", the KKK, and every disparate fat assed, weekend warrior militia group playing "pew pew" in the woods before going back to camp and gorging themselves on bacon and beer and recitations from the "Spencer Diaries" and "Mein Kampf".....we here in America actually have the makings of a REAL Fascist regime top to bottom.

Not to mention GRU style Panopticon surveillance all the way from the various "Alphabet Organizations"....(CIA, NSA HSA, etc) to actually the Alphabet Corporation (Google) itself, which of course, was angel invested by the CIA. Of course...I can never leave Facebook out of the mix.

[Jumbotron]

As a long term Netscape/Mozilla user, surely this situation reminds you of Internet Explorer roughly 20 years ago. Google Chrome is (today) every bit in the same place, we have come full circle. Maybe some might say Google isn't (quite as) aggressive as Microsoft was back then, but the end result looks identical to me. It's 1998 all over again with a one-browser-internet.



Agreed. Google has successfully weaponized FOSS to build a new kind of browser monopoly. But as long as people willingly choose to use Chrome or any Chrome/Chromium derivative, everything you describe will get worse in the same way as it kept getting worse in the IE dominance days.

But the problem is as I stated earlier, it's NOT about willingly choose...I HAVE TO CHOOSE a Chrome derivative as an alternative browser to my locked down tighter than a frog's ass Firefox, just so I can go to those web pages that break while using Firefox. And when you HAVE to choose, well...the word choice loses all meaning.

And no...to an earlier questioner, these pages DO NOT break because of Firefox's security settings NOR with my additional stack of extensions such as uBlock Origin with EVERY option turned on, HTTPS Everywhere, Privacy Badger, Facebook Fence and Webmail Adblock. I've turned everything off and STILL have government web pages break, corporate web pages break, even consumer facing web pages such as Tmobile.com break. But never with a Chrome derivative.

Just...breaks...my heart.