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Originally posted by Sonadow
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So your best contribution to the subject of "KDE and Wayland are not best friends even using the latest version" is "it doesn't work for me using some versions I dug up from God knows where"... Neat. -
I wonder if you have PSU issues - the PSU supervision is not reset by the reset button. And anything that maximizes CPU + GPU load can trig your problem. Anyway - it definitely does sound like a hardware issue and not something Plasma is responsible for.Originally posted by Sonadow View PostComment
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The we need to stop using C/C++ that likes to crash on anything that resembles invalid pointers and whatnot. Not sure it's possible on linux at all.Originally posted by Spooktra View PostComment
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Maybe try using a distro that has a modern tech stack and not a, arguably, server / stability orientated distro? Plasma 5.14 was released 2 years ago and Debian isn't going to backport features to it.Originally posted by Sonadow View PostComment
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$$ do not make good governance. Linux's GIT shows this to be so true.Originally posted by polarathene View Post
GNOME coding group etc are now trying to have GIT type of software technologies move into HRM (human resources, rather that alphanumeric code resources). This is a subset of the cognitive technologies. Technologies are subsets of the Sciences. All "sciences" of every "life-form" are described by the academic system call "Cognitive Science" [CS]. CS is the software rendition of all known hardware & software. I do try to touch on these CS topics in the subReddit: AgedFrailAdults.Comment
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The genuine senior engineers are not at all surprised by these press reports and reader comments. All good engineering has known, costed & calculated failure predictions. "God" is everywhere, according to statistics, including the many types of "unknown failures".
are more specific examples now. When we use a minimum of two visual displays, can they be relied on to handle different DPI, screen refresh rates, aliasing, contrast & coloring? The switch reliably & predictable for alignment, portrait, landscape, etc?
KDE & Gnome are software systems used to communicate the internal knowledge so that some people understand. All knowledge systems are imperfect survivors of evolutionary development, as is common to all "cognition".
When we use the terms like "SHOULD BE CRASHING A LOT LESS", this is the hope of some of these engineering efforts. There are four types of "crashes", described well in the management "Johari Window" metaphor: Open, Hidden, Secret & Unknown.
Whatever the display system of silicon computing, these are some of the common problems faced right now: rapid evolution, change and failure to remove additions, changes & upgrades; invented & obsolete changes everywhere: networks, devices, person-ware (wetware). These hardware & software "devices" are buried deep into many levels & types of infrastructures & superstructures, with varying levels of effectiveness & predictability.
Gnome is unusual, compared to the rest of operating systems, in that they are trying to move this Linux GIT invention into the wetware world we call HRM, or Human Resources Management. Linux is so different from where Apple used to be a few days ago. Google and slowly Microsoft are slowly creating wetware changes. Eventually all these sub-industries of cognitive science (CS) will enable much better cognitive technologies (CT). This 2020 year shows how primitive our CS & CT efforts are, with TheDonald being world's most effective "Chief Technologist". If the U.N. & its sub agency (W.H.O.) are this planet's major statement of cognitive intelligence, you youngsters know what a mess we old Baby Boomers have left for you to try to survive this extremely rapid 'Sixth Planetary Extinction'. This is being attempted discussion in the subReddit: AgedFrailAdults.Comment
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Funny, I've got well over 20 desktops and laptops running KDE / Fedora (~10 users), for the past ~10 years+, using Intel, AMD/ATI and nVidia (binary) drivers, and somehow I don't see the magical crashes that you're talking about.Originally posted by mikus View Post
Anecdotal? Sure. But my anecdotal evidence sure beats yours.
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oVirt-HV2: Intel S2400GP2, 2xE5-2448L, 120GB, 8x2TB, 4x480GB SSD, GTX730 (to-VM).
oVirt-HV3: Gigabyte B85M-HD3, E3-1245V3, 32GB, 4x1TB, 2x480GB SSD, GTX980 (to-VM).
Devel-2: Asus H110M-K, i5-6500, 16GB, 3x1TB + 128GB-SSD, F33.Comment
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I've had not as many personal laptop/desktops over the years as yourself, but even for me a typical laptop or a typical desktop with one display works great. The problem is I don't do "typical" with 3-6 displays at a time as it's how I work. It's really hard to describe all the weird graphic issues I see, almost all are reproducible by me, but bug reports tend to go into /dev/null with kde folks as no one else rolls like this to see or experience it.Originally posted by gilboa View Post
<tldr>
My main desktop for probably 2007-2015 was a typical intel box with a 6-head asus radeon card driving 6x 1080p displays. This was perfectly stable for the most part pre-compositing days (~2010?) using (k)ubuntu, so long as I didn't try to dynamically manage the displays with kde. It's almost hideous how bad it's multi-monitor setup (and maintaining) support with any sort of coming and going of displays as kde since 4.x still doesn't save settings properly, but luckily for the most part, they did not ever get removed being DVI to DP adapters. Every reboot, luckily only every 6mo or so, it would more or less move displays in weird ways, and from kde4 would never handle display setup properly (and insultingly enough marked as "won't fix" then). As soon as kde introduced compositing, performance went to hell, so did stability of the DE. My typical approach was static xorg config, disabling compositing, and often today still is.
Fast forward somewhere around 2015 I changed from my 6x 1080p lcd's to 3x 49" Samsung 4k TV's for displays, and that's when things really got weird. This was on a new system, dual cpu xeons, 20 cores, 128gb ram, 1070gt nv card, dual m.2 ssd, absolutely no performance issues in hardware. What I did find was HDMI TV's behave way differently as monitors, no DPMS means even a display powering down for idle caused hotplug events that caused KDE to utterly freak out, move everything around every 20 minutes it'd go idle and power down, and force me to pretty much reconfigure my desktop, as well as move all my windows back across displays randomly. KWIN itself would randomly crap the bed running at 11520x2160 resolution, everything from lag, to crashing desktop effects, and in general just be crappy. Disabling KWIN and automatic power-down/dpms was often the best solution, removes lag/crashing, though causes my office to stay even hotter in an Arizona summer always on.
I ended up moving that desktop to headless operation, and started using my laptop, an xps15. It has a TB3 port, and I use a dock with it, which connects 2 of my 3 4k TV's plus the built-in 4k display, and this gets even weirder of late, but not only a KDE thing these days. If I simply "turn off" my tv's, or let them idle shut down, kde resets my video almost every time. It'll default to 24hz vs. 60 that freak out the display, and or reverse them randomly. It'll come up in 1080p mode when xrandr sees the proper 4k60hz resolutions. If I disable kwin compositing in settings, it enables it, and vise-versa, sometimes working, sometimes not, but doing opposite as settings indicate. Even moving displays to put them back into order is almost maddening with weird snapping behavior in display settings to get them aligned again.
The absolute most maddening thing KDE does to me these days is occasionally glitches out, with kwin enabled or not, my 3rd display (2nd tv, including the laptop display) will simply make windows disappear if I move them. Any window, if I drag it at all, it just sorta disappears, and any normal activities like clicking on it in the trays will not allow it to show back up. The only way to fix this is to maximize the window, then it maximizes on the 2nd display, and unmaximizes on the 2nd. If I move it back to the 3rd display, it disappears again, repeat loud cursing and expletives. The only way for me to get a window to show on the 3rd display is to resize the window over to it from the 2nd display to 3rd, and resize it only on the third. If I move it at all, it disappears again. WTF? Only a hard reboot fixes this, not even a sddm restart.
If KDE would fix their video setup and handling, maybe fix kwin to not crash and lag everything to hell at large framebuffer resolutions, it'd be perfect really, but right now it's still almost a daily or at least weekly problem I deal with. Maybe self-inflicted gunshot wounds with my choices in displays, but I don't see my setup being that a-typical these days that this should still be a thing, other than dev's not testing what happens with 3 or more displays coming and going at a time.
Only KDE does this, but Cinnamon/Mate have their own quirks that make me hate them as well, none nearly as bad as some of this described from KDE, but even with all this, I still prefer KDE to others, when it's at all even remotely usable.Comment
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Win10 have had similar issues - working very well until people adds multiple high-resolution monitors.Originally posted by mikus View Post
I guess one problem here is that for open source projects, lots of people with most time on their hands working with the project have limited economy for buying hardware. And for commercial products, the product managers don't assign money to buy in high end hardware.
I have always been a person pushing the limit on hardware - more cores, more disk, higher resolution etc. And I have always ended up with nosebleed. Was it Win2k SP2 or SP3 before M$ finally understood people might copy more than 4 GB file data at a time and stopping using a 32-bit integer for the number of bytes to copy when computing the expected remaining time? And I have had sooo many issues with displays, moving applications, confusion about some displays being landscape and some portrait etc. So it's obvious that testing outside of the standard with one or two horizontal monitors is much lacking.
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When I first got this laptop, it came with win10 pro on it, which normally I'd just wipe windoze and move on with linux, but decided to for grins try windoze again for a week or so. It was terrible at 4k even with just the single built-in display with lags and stutters. I was just like wtf, people pay for this?! I promised I'd give it at least a week, then finally set about putting my normal arch build on it. It's really a shame, I figured "well it's windoze, at least it'll work", but it was complete garbage, and I never even tried it then in multi-monitor with another 2 4k/60 displays as I run now.Originally posted by zyxxel View Post
Another problem is I've never gotten prime, or rather "reverse prime" to work on this thing to use the nvidia gpu full-time vs. the crap intel gpu it seems to always prefer. Tried every guide I've found, nada. Even the presence of dual-gpu/prime seems to just make everything worse. With AMD finally being decent again, I think my next laptop will likely be that, ideally with a decent and single radeon gpu. I used a radeon as mentioned for years, and even with oss graphics, it was awesome (minus kde bugs), here's to hope their laptop gpu's aren't as terrible as intel/nvidia.
Agreed on the rest of your points as well, project folks writing these don't run exotic setups, either their poor hackers without access to this sort of hardware, or corporate slaves that the company won't buy them the hardware even. I'd think folks writing graphics drivers would, but seems not.
Mean time KDE is doing the hiding windows again and compositing shuffle. Ugh, suck. I swear someone at KDE hates me.
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