Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

LibreOffice 7.0 Released As The Open-Source, Vulkan-Accelerated Office Suite

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #41
    Originally posted by Veto View Post
    So dependency on a huge crappy runtime is not a technical argument? Well, you can define your way around it all day, but it is the major problem with Java.
    Blatantly false. Since Java9 the runtime has been modularized, so that you can ship with only the parts you use.

    Originally posted by Veto View Post
    • On Windows the JRE is basically synonymous with Oracles JRE, which makes you agree to be extorted by Oracles lawyers and sales people. When installed you have yet another program running all the time in the background and maybe even installing some browser toolbar or whatnot.
    • On Linux it is easy to install OpenJDK but difficult to get the Java programs to even work, because they often require a slightly different version or just only work with the Oracle version. Then see above...
    • On MacOS... probably some combination of above..
    Oh, and Oracle has even shown the will to go to SCOTUS to milk the use of the Java API outside the Oracle JRE, making the use of OpenJDK a risky affair - even though it is GPL licensed.

    Java - Write once, problems everywhere...
    Oracle JDK is not synonymous with anything, it's down to 34% market share (and declining, mostly thanks to Oracle's shenanigans): https://snyk.io/wp-content/uploads/jvm_2020.pdf
    OpenJDK/JRE and Oracle's do not differ technically since Java 11.

    Whatever hate you may have for Java, you need to bring it into 2020.

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by gnulinux82

      What a stupid question.
      Remember, there are no stupid questions; just stupid people.

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by bug77 View Post
        Blatantly false. Since Java9 the runtime has been modularized, so that you can ship with only the parts you use.
        OK, this is new to me. Then why do we still have many applications (including LibreOffice...) still requesting users to install a runtime?

        Originally posted by bug77 View Post
        Oracle JDK is not synonymous with anything, it's down to 34% market share (and declining, mostly thanks to Oracle's shenanigans): https://snyk.io/wp-content/uploads/jvm_2020.pdf
        OpenJDK/JRE and Oracle's do not differ technically since Java 11.
        Great. Then what about older applications? Can I then install Oracle JRE 8 alongside OpenJDK 11 and have it just workTM?

        Originally posted by bug77 View Post
        Whatever hate you may have for Java, you need to bring it into 2020.
        Java may have become the greatest language ever (and likely is on a controlled server-side environment), but as long as application users still have to endure the pain of being reminded all the time they are using a Java based application and struggling to make it work, it is probably not ME who has to do something
        Last edited by Veto; 05 August 2020, 05:53 PM.

        Comment


        • #44
          Agree with Veto here. For an example of how broken java is on desktop linux,
          especially for sound try getting a popular chess client, jin. to work .
          Distros like Debian have upgraded to java 11 or higher. Jin only works with openjdk 8
          or Oracle java 8 which is not easily available anymore. Downgrading to openjdk 8 on those distros usually gets you weird sound issues. On Gnome based distros like Ubuntu and elementary you get accessibility class errors, which are easy to fix. Only a pure distro like voidlinux gets it right.
          A terrible experience for any switcher to linux.

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by Veto View Post
            OK, this is new to me. Then why do we still have many applications (including LibreOffice...) still requesting users to install a runtime?
            Because apps are packaged the old way. Not exactly Java's fault, just people not updating their packaging methods.

            Originally posted by Veto View Post
            Great. Then what about older applications? Can I then install Oracle JRE 8 alongside OpenJDK 11 and have it just workTM?
            Always could, always will be able to do so.

            Originally posted by Veto View Post
            Java may have become the greatest language ever (and likely is on a controlled server-side environment), but as long as application users still have to endure the pain of being reminded all the time they are using a Java based application and struggling to make it work, it is probably not ME who has to do something
            Java isn't the greatest language ever (by a long shot), but it's good enough for this particular purpose.
            Whatever pains you have suffered using Java application were probably self-inflicted. I'm using IntelliJ Idea on a daily basis and have encountered none of the problems you list. And that's just the app I use most often.

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by krell View Post
              Agree with Veto here. For an example of how broken java is on desktop linux,
              especially for sound try getting a popular chess client, jin. to work .
              Distros like Debian have upgraded to java 11 or higher. Jin only works with openjdk 8
              or Oracle java 8 which is not easily available anymore. Downgrading to openjdk 8 on those distros usually gets you weird sound issues. On Gnome based distros like Ubuntu and elementary you get accessibility class errors, which are easy to fix. Only a pure distro like voidlinux gets it right.
              A terrible experience for any switcher to linux.
              You do realize you're mostly complaining about a broken installer here, not Java.
              Whatever dependencies a package may have, it's supposed to declare it, so it can be installed automatically when needed.

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by bug77 View Post
                Whatever pains you have suffered using Java application were probably self-inflicted. I'm using IntelliJ Idea on a daily basis and have encountered none of the problems you list. And that's just the app I use most often.
                Well, if everything fails - blame the user! Stupid users!

                OK, a Java IDE should probably at least get it right. Just downloaded it and tried it out. Sure enough seems to use its own bundled JBR-11 It also threw 4 errors at first startup and emits a 'deprecated' warning , but otherwise seems to run OK.

                Maybe in the future the stupid users can run Java applications like any other application.

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by caligula View Post
                  So far the only argument I've seen is that you think JDK is bloated. But is it? Personally I don't like the JDKs but can't think of any better. I mean, GTk/QT/Mono/Electron seem to have similar level of bloat or bring their own issues especially with cross-platform support.
                  Seriously? I find Java to be WAY BEYOND, out in it's own class of pure bloatiness compared to Gtk or even Qt. I mean seriously, Java "solved" memory leakage by simply taking up ALL of the memory in a computer and saying "well, we'll garbage collect unused memory when we (apps running under the Java JRE) need some free memory..." That's totally retarded!!

                  Gtk is probably the least bloated toolkit ever (aside from toy toolkits that don't amount to much, like Fltk, etc). Not seeing much issue with cross-platform support here, as Gimp has been working fine on all of the platforms I've used (x86 Linux, Windows, Raspberry Pi, etc).

                  Qt is pretty tight, if you ignore all the heft brought in by the Chromium based Web Engine component.

                  Qt is probably the best at cross platform support, far better than Java. I run into plenty of Java apps that don't run on my Raspberry Pi (Android Studio, Microchip MPLAB X, etc), while every Qt app I've run into can be compiled and run without a hitch. I've even ported a lot of Qt apps to Android without much trouble (UI's generally need a little tweaking to work sensibly with the touchscreen/keyboardless computer concept).

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    I tried LibreOffice 7 on a VM and to my surprise transitions in Impress worked.
                    I am looking forward to trying it on real metal.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      These days i use mostly OnlyOffice, its opensource. ... and its enough for average home user as well. Altho SoftMaker Office is also good.
                      Last edited by dado023; 05 August 2020, 09:38 PM.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X