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GNOME Optimizations Continue In Striving For Faster 4K Experience

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  • #21
    Originally posted by discordian View Post
    Thats not "premature optimization", its fixing a lack of design (what to do when and where). GTK4 will finally have a scenegraph, so there is hope that one day Gnome will not need a 3Ghz Quadcore to not be slower than my 50Mhz Amiga 1200 when drawing the UI.
    ...
    1. the shell does not use GTK
    2. the recent MRs from Daniel were quite small and simple in nature. IMO they show a rather good design (as it allows these optimizations) and at the same time a lack of systemic testing and measuring. So indeed nice to see him filling that gap to a certain degree.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by Mez' View Post
      wayland can't be deemed ready if it can't play videos on 4k60.
      X can't be deemed ready if it can't handle different refresh rates.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by Mez' View Post
        What would be nice as well is wayland not screwing up videos on 4k60Hz. They run at twice the speed and with a high-pitched sound. I can't play anything from embedded videos to movies/shows in any media player. Works fine in 4k30.

        wayland can't be deemed ready if it can't play videos on 4k60.
        This certainly works for me (4K60 gnome wayland on a Skylake i7 with debian buster as well as on a 9th gen i7 Intel Laptop with debian bullseye)...
        Must be something else, maybe distro or DE?
        Last edited by mppix; 07-13-2020, 12:20 PM.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by mppix View Post

          This certainly works for me (4K60 gnome wayland on a Skylake i7 with debian buster as well as on a 9th gen i7 Intel Laptop with debian bullseye)...
          Must be something else, maybe distro or DE?
          If that's the case, I won't blame wayland per se, but more time is still required nonetheless for other bits to adapt.
          I suppose amdgpu or vaapi/vdpau might have to do with it then. Other than that I don't see why wayland 4k60 would be the only config in which it doesn't work (wayland 4K30 and X11 4k60 are both fine).
          I would gladly report a bug but I don't want to watch a table tennis game where the blame would be rejected between protagonists.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by treba View Post

            1. the shell does not use GTK
            It does, they to uninstall libgtk-3-0 while keeping the shell.

            Originally posted by treba View Post
            2. the recent MRs from Daniel were quite small and simple in nature. IMO they show a rather good design (as it allows these optimizations) and at the same time a lack of systemic testing and measuring. So indeed nice to see him filling that gap to a certain degree.
            Compare it with a toolkit that has a proper design, and its still a slow resource hog.
            Buggy aswell, as Nautilus still regularly crashes, displays stale content, search is getting stuck infinitely.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by discordian View Post
              It does, they to uninstall libgtk-3-0 while keeping the shell.
              What is GTK used for in Gnome Shell?

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              • #27
                Originally posted by ms178 View Post

                Just imagine what GNOME could have been today, if Canonical had embraced it sooner.
                Canonical always embraced Gnome Shell. They were not allowed to contribute. Everything was blocked. I have still never seen any credible explanations for why it was deemed critical that Gnome not support exportable menus, for instance. That caused the divide because Canonical had to maintain its own patches, making it more difficult to support Unity on other distros.

                The attacks on Canonical are nearly always hypocritical and based on ignorance.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by discordian View Post
                  It does, they to uninstall libgtk-3-0 while keeping the shell.
                  Ok, I'll correct myself: the shell does use GTK, but mostly for things like theming, the legacy tray area and stuff like that. It mostly uses its internal toolkit, ST, and its fork of Clutter. The nice improvements in GTK4 will not have a direct effect on the shell and its performance.

                  Originally posted by discordian View Post
                  Compare it with a toolkit that has a proper design, and its still a slow resource hog.
                  Buggy aswell, as Nautilus still regularly crashes, displays stale content, search is getting stuck infinitely.
                  I'm not sure what you are talking about, but to me you seem to be confused about the difference between the shell, gtk and gtk-based applications

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Mez' View Post
                    If that's the case, I won't blame wayland per se, but more time is still required nonetheless for other bits to adapt.
                    I suppose amdgpu or vaapi/vdpau might have to do with it then. Other than that I don't see why wayland 4k60 would be the only config in which it doesn't work (wayland 4K30 and X11 4k60 are both fine).
                    I would gladly report a bug but I don't want to watch a table tennis game where the blame would be rejected between protagonists.
                    TBH, I have no idea if any of my systems run HW acceleration for video behind the scene but CPU usage is very much in check. Some setup information if it is helpful
                    - Desktop: Debian 10; Gnome/Wayland runs on Intel iGPU with 4K60; 2xTitan Xp for GPU compute with complete Nvidia 440.x driver suite (mainly used for cuDNN machine learning but also for darktable, blender, etc acceleration).
                    - Laptop: Debian 11 (testing); Gnome/Wayland runs again on Intel iGPU with 4K60 with 2x scaling
                    Happy to help if there is a simple way to check/test HW acceleration...

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by treba View Post

                      Ok, I'll correct myself: the shell does use GTK, but mostly for things like theming, the legacy tray area and stuff like that. It mostly uses its internal toolkit, ST, and its fork of Clutter. The nice improvements in GTK4 will not have a direct effect on the shell and its performance.
                      Then Mutter & its integration with GTK are at fault. All part of the Gnome Projects, I never brought up the gnome-shell, you did.
                      Everything is involved to paint the UI, the smartest thing would be to skip the parts that aren't visible, that's where the scenegraph kicks in.
                      Originally posted by treba View Post
                      I'm not sure what you are talking about, but to me you seem to be confused about the difference between the shell, gtk and gtk-based applications
                      I have to run all of those, you know what the sum of those part is called (Hint: Its in the topic ) but I guess you need to divert criticism instead of addressing it.

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