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GNOME's Window Rendering Culling Was Broken Leading To Wasted Performance

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  • #31
    Originally posted by 144Hz View Post
    kravemir Adapting to Mutter is far easier than doing your own desktop wayland compositor.
    That would be laughable, if you weren't saying wrong things on purpose.
    Which in turn makes you ridiculous.

    kravemir You can read this old post: http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blo...gl-compositor/
    Even when Mutter was released it was vastly different from Kwin, which in turn is more similar to Compiz

    PS: that post was shared also here https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...item&px=OTMwOA

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    • #32

      Originally posted by kravemir View Post

      Many users don't like KDE, because it's over-customizable and over-detailed. Personally, that's also mine reason, why I prefer GNOME 3 over KDE.

      However, why each DE develops its own compositor from scratch instead of having/sharing some common reusable base compositor (at least for rendering). Except from UI overlay, the rendering (buffers exchange, compositing) process is the same,...

      I just don't get why Linux users promote too much diversity. It looks to produce more resources waste, and reinventing the wheel, than benefit.
      KDEs issues would are due to receiving much less funding and manpower than Gnome, as Microsoft, IBM, etc all prefer to see the Linux desktop be crippled by Gnome.

      KDE achieves far more with less resources than Gnome, and with the same resources it would be an unparalleled superior Desktop experience.


      Originally posted by 144Hz View Post
      kravemir A single Wayland compositor for the desktop? Sure. The big distributors already went with Mutter.
      Mutter is inferior to KDE plasma wayland session as has been shown numerous times on phoronix performance tests.



      Originally posted by Veto View Post
      Wow, sour grapes... I have tried KDE a couple of time, but wasn't very impressed. After having getting used to Unity, I will never go back to a desktop with a Windows-style taskbar eating away my precious vertical screen space. Personally, I feel Gnome has really become very performant (yes, it took a long time!), unobtrusive and easy to use with nice keyboard shortcuts.

      However, all to their own... but at least try to be a bit sociable.
      Latte Dock can mimic unity exactly and is even superior to it. Latte Dock is part of KDE software.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
        ...

        With windows displaying complex software (like a web browser) this data often needs to keep being sent (i.e as pixels) because it changes very often (the copy on the GPU is already out of date). This unfortunately results in blocking the pipeline. Especially now people have (wastefully IMO) extremely high resolution displays requiring massive amounts of pixels to be sent.

        If people had simpler UI designs (i.e think boxy Motif) where they could be drawn mainly with instructions (i.e "draw 20x20 box") rather than a raster image, this could be much faster. But people in 2020 want their fancy "bling". This trend does seem to cycle. Perhaps in 2030 we will have less wasteful desktops? Who knows?

        As it stands, many things can be retained on the GPU. But not enough unfortunately.
        This ability to retain data also made it translate exceptionally well to remote UI systems. Unfortunately these are being neglected in these days of consumer electronics.
        I think that it's a mixed blessing. Partial updates have actually come a long way since the Motif days. I think we now have the best and most efficient tools for this ever. Personally I prefer the Windows 95 look to the Motif look.

        As display resolutions have increased dramatically, more of the screen is filled with images, and text rendering has become more complicated (shaping, hinting, subpixel rendering and positioning, etc), direct drawing of UIs has become less attractive.

        I think there's some promise in making the scanout engines smarter, so we don't need to actually composite most of the screen.
        Last edited by microcode; 22 June 2020, 04:37 PM.

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        • #34
          Nice to see optimization
          Important thing.
          The sad thing is that high quality imaging has not been used by applications such as Live Wallpapers etc. Many people are interested in the content, but cover of the book too..

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          • #35
            As part of wanting to improve the GNOME performance at 4K with Intel graphics, Canonical's Daniel van Vugt has been profiling various desktop issues and looking to address them for GNOME 3.38 / Ubuntu 20.10.
            My question is:

            Will these changes be backported into Ubuntu 20.04 LTS? Or will people who want stability have to wait until the next LTS before they can enjoy these performance benefits? At some point in time vast performance improvements like this have to be considered bug-fixes.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by drees View Post
              My question is:

              Will these changes be backported into Ubuntu 20.04 LTS? Or will people who want stability have to wait until the next LTS before they can enjoy these performance benefits? At some point in time vast performance improvements like this have to be considered bug-fixes.
              Digging into the ticket, it appears that it will be backported into 3.36, and thus Ubuntu 20.04.

              https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutte...24#note_846799
              This was superseded by !1326 (merged)

              @abramm the commit at !1326 (merged) has been cherry-picked to the gnome-3-36 branch. I advise you use that one instead.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by 240Hz View Post
                KDEs issues would are due to receiving much less funding and manpower than Gnome, as Microsoft, IBM, etc all prefer to see the Linux desktop be crippled by Gnome.
                KDE achieves far more with less resources than Gnome, and with the same resources it would be an unparalleled superior Desktop experience.
                It must be a conspiracy! Especially when it is so obvious that KDE is the one true dektop destined to rule them all

                Originally posted by 240Hz View Post
                Mutter is inferior to KDE plasma wayland session as has been shown numerous times on phoronix performance tests.
                Not really. E.g. the most recent tests showed it to be essentially a draw.
                - https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...desktops&num=1
                - https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...desktops&num=1

                Originally posted by 240Hz View Post
                Latte Dock can mimic unity exactly and is even superior to it. Latte Dock is part of KDE software.
                Thanks for the tip! Some day I really ought to try KDE again. But frankly my current setup works quite well, and if it ain't broken...
                However, there are some quite good KDE apps I use with great pleasure, like Krusader and Krita - a big thanks to whomever is bringing us those

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Veto View Post
                  It must be a conspiracy! Especially when it is so obvious that KDE is the one true dektop destined to rule them all


                  Not really. E.g. the most recent tests showed it to be essentially a draw.
                  - https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...desktops&num=1
                  - https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...desktops&num=1



                  Thanks for the tip! Some day I really ought to try KDE again. But frankly my current setup works quite well, and if it ain't broken...
                  However, there are some quite good KDE apps I use with great pleasure, like Krusader and Krita - a big thanks to whomever is bringing us those
                  You can mimic Unity pretty well in Budgie too.

                  Not with the default plank dock, but by adding a left panel (with the icon task list applet) in addition to the top panel. The pixel saver applet also lets you get the title bars in the top bar (although contrary to Gnome Unite extension you can't grab the top bar to unmaximize the windows). There's also a global menu applet, although I've never been a fan.
                  It's gtk as well, so all themes are working seamlessly.

                  On a lovely Gnome news today, wobbly windows are back with a working extension this time. Moving windows feel smooth once more.

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                  • #39
                    Gears at 15fps?

                    That seems slow.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Mez' View Post

                      You can mimic Unity pretty well in Budgie too.

                      Not with the default plank dock, but by adding a left panel (with the icon task list applet) in addition to the top panel. The pixel saver applet also lets you get the title bars in the top bar (although contrary to Gnome Unite extension you can't grab the top bar to unmaximize the windows). There's also a global menu applet, although I've never been a fan.
                      It's gtk as well, so all themes are working seamlessly.

                      On a lovely Gnome news today, wobbly windows are back with a working extension this time. Moving windows feel smooth once more.
                      Budgie is bugged, at least last time I tried it (half a year ago)... However, Budgie goes for more elegant simplistic design, than GNOME 3. So, if it wasn't bugged, I would have stayed with it.

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