Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

KDE Plasma 5.19 Released After Lots Of Polishing, Better Wayland Support

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by Ximion View Post
    Everyone complaining about KDE and NVIDIA should read this: http://blog.davidedmundson.co.uk/blo...and-on-nvidia/
    Of course it would be great if NVIDIA played a bit nicer and caused less work for people implementing Wayland compositors, but the situation is far less bad - on the KDE side - than some people make it look like.
    Very interesting post on the Wayland vs Nvidia FUD that is all pervasive these days in the Linux community. At the end of the day a hardware vendor has no obligation to provide support to some communities particular software developments. Nvidia has actually provided a standardized interface to work with in the form of EGL streams.... yes its different from the ones developed by ATI, but that is the nature of "standards". Take 14 competing standards, create 1 to unify them all... now you have 15 competing standards!

    Hopefully KDE leads the way in working with Nvidia hardware. As David said in his post their telemetry indicates that a large portion of their user base (and by inference a large portion of the Linux desktop users) run on Nvidia hardware with the proprietary drivers (myself included). It works very well. It would be nice to see KDE lead in this area.

    Thanks to Ximion for posting that link, I may have to take some time to test this out!

    Comment


    • #32
      I love KDE, but 5.18 and 5.19 have been total shit shows. IIRC 5.16 was the last issue-less release for me. 5.19-Xorg on arch right now hard locks after about 5 seconds. Instantly if I hit my 2nd monitor menu or launch any app on it. Or try to activate my work spaces. The lock sometimes makes something start throwing PCIE errors, too. Changed to mainline kernel, stable, LTS, all the same. What a fucking disaster. This is the sort of shit that really shows how terribly put together this is currently. My RX 580 isn't exotic or under-developed hardware, either. This shit not working is pathetic.

      Comment


      • #33
        YAY Wayland, can't wait to t... (looks at 1080ti), oh nevermind...

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by sandy8925 View Post

          That's why I stopped using Ubuntu long ago, and switched to Arch Linux. I want the latest stable software, not some 1.5 year old kernel and other software.

          Even Fedora seems a better choice - nice polished experience and reasonably up to date software. Ubuntu has just been full of NIH and other nonsense for a long time.
          More FUD from Ubuntu haters? Ubuntu based operating systems generally asked the administrator that updates are available, and offers updates to the Linux kernel. Compiled, quick & easy install kernel updates teach Ubuntu systems earlier & more regularly than perhaps all other Linux operating systems, including the Arch based systems.
          On the official Ubuntu site, these updates are available seconds after they are released by "The Linux Foundation". Included are all the beta versions, for most CPU's, and the low latency versions for at least one CPU.
          If properly installed, most Linux operating systems prompt the installer to update the operating system. So the final operating system no longer has the older components of the original ISO. Often many writers do not know these facts, or they do not allow this update process to ever happen.

          Comment


          • #35
            Perhaps my understanding of Linux is too simple, or wrong? I used to think that the Windows Manager, or the Desktop Environment (DE) were added to the Linux Kernel. The display interfaces, such as Wayland, X, or none at all, were able to be independent of the DE. The writings here suggest the display server now depends on the DE, and cannot be run on some DE's.
            Both traditional & new codes have limits & bugs. This is well known, and mature people expect this. With the new hardware, and unusual combinations of hardware & software, the shortcomings are becoming obvious. Surely this is normal, for both traditional & newly created systems? These new uses include high DPI, different orientations, different frame rates, many other technical details and other desired additional features. Perfection is not yet reached. Perhaps it will never be reached.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by gregzeng View Post

              More FUD from Ubuntu haters?
              Personal question: Did you ever in your lifetime use Manjaro or Arch?

              Comment


              • #37
                Oh look more FUD from NVIDIA fans and Ubuntu fans.

                Well, NVIDIA chose not to participate in early Wayland discussions that were on public mailing lists that they had access to, and were invited too. They could have opposed GBM usage early in the process and proposed something else. They chose not to.

                Then, years later after some major work was already completed, they suddenly announced they didn't like the current way of using GBM, proposed an alternative, oh and they had already gone ahead and implemented that new approach and released it in their stable driver release. Passive aggressive much?

                And then all of these whiny idiotic NVIDIA fans started shouting and screaming about why others didn't run around catering to NVIDIA and their wants and needs.

                Eff off.

                ​​​​​

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by abott View Post
                  The lock sometimes makes something start throwing PCIE errors, too.
                  There is all you need to know, desktops and applications are newer responsible such low level errors liker PCIE errors. This is the driver domain.

                  It's either a driver issue, or more likely (since it's not exotic hardware) a broken setup or install.
                  If other DEs do not show the same issues, it's simply because they do not access the same functionality in the driver.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by gregzeng View Post
                    Perhaps my understanding of Linux is too simple, or wrong? I used to think that the Windows Manager, or the Desktop Environment (DE) were added to the Linux Kernel. The display interfaces, such as Wayland, X, or none at all, were able to be independent of the DE. The writings here suggest the display server now depends on the DE, and cannot be run on some DE's.
                    Both traditional & new codes have limits & bugs. This is well known, and mature people expect this. With the new hardware, and unusual combinations of hardware & software, the shortcomings are becoming obvious. Surely this is normal, for both traditional & newly created systems? These new uses include high DPI, different orientations, different frame rates, many other technical details and other desired additional features. Perfection is not yet reached. Perhaps it will never be reached.
                    You're at the wrong level. Compositor are application that interfaces with X11 directly to compose the image instead of letting X11 render to the screen's framebuffer. They are not at the DMA-BUF level, not KMS and certainly not at the kernel level. They talk to X11 using libx11 or xcb.

                    On the other hand, wayland is different: there is no display server, only compositors. Compositor must do everything that X11 did, including render to the framebuffer and passing input to windows. They are responsible to expose the necessary interfaces for the client to do what they do on X11. Without a base library like wlroots, it can be a very long task to implement a wayland compositor.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by zexelon View Post

                      Very interesting post on the Wayland vs Nvidia FUD that is all pervasive these days in the Linux community. At the end of the day a hardware vendor has no obligation to provide support to some communities particular software developments. Nvidia has actually provided a standardized interface to work with in the form of EGL streams.... yes its different from the ones developed by ATI, but that is the nature of "standards". Take 14 competing standards, create 1 to unify them all... now you have 15 competing standards!

                      Hopefully KDE leads the way in working with Nvidia hardware. As David said in his post their telemetry indicates that a large portion of their user base (and by inference a large portion of the Linux desktop users) run on Nvidia hardware with the proprietary drivers (myself included). It works very well. It would be nice to see KDE lead in this area.

                      Thanks to Ximion for posting that link, I may have to take some time to test this out!
                      Exactly right. It would be fantastic to see the Linux community become more mature and actually try to work with NVidia to get Wayland working with EGLStreams especially considering that EGLStreams is an open standard by Khronos (where as GBM is a Linux specific API).

                      Originally posted by sandy8925 View Post
                      Oh look more FUD from NVIDIA fans and Ubuntu fans.

                      Well, NVIDIA chose not to participate in early Wayland discussions that were on public mailing lists that they had access to, and were invited too. They could have opposed GBM usage early in the process and proposed something else. They chose not to.
                      They did, they just simply said they cannot support GBM because of the performance penalty, there was nothing more to add. Also Wayland has nothing to do with GBM, Wayland is just a display protocol (nothing is stopping display compositors from supporting EGLStreams)

                      Originally posted by sandy8925 View Post
                      Then, years later after some major work was already completed, they suddenly announced they didn't like the current way of using GBM, proposed an alternative, oh and they had already gone ahead and implemented that new approach and released it in their stable driver release. Passive aggressive much?
                      EGLStreams predates Wayland (it was standardized in 20011).... See https://www.khronos.org/registry/EGL...KHR_stream.txt

                      Im sorry but in this case Linux was out of touch of everyone other OS and how it treats graphics drivers in the real world. GBM is a very basic primitive interface that only works with drivers that are coded in a very specific way for Linux (i.e. GBM synchronous in nature). All other OS's (Android, Windows and MacOS) use asynchronous/stream based interfaces.
                      Last edited by mdedetrich; 10 June 2020, 09:29 AM.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X