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Two More Projects Join KWinFT Fork Of KDE KWin, Beta Milestone Reached

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  • #31
    Originally posted by 240Hz View Post

    Nvidia runs just fine on X. Its wayland that doesnt run on the majority of consumer and enterprise GPUs. therefore wayland is a joke. But yeah, stick to your political puriatnism if it makes you feel better
    Yes, it runs on X, but I was talking about experience with Wayland and Windows. Nvidia drivers are closed source crap, because of political reasons, so keep such advises for nviDIE. Ps. Majority of consumers are running Intel graphics and it seems it runs fine with Wayland. Nvidia will give up.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by 240Hz View Post
      Nvidia runs just fine on X. Its wayland that doesnt run on the majority of consumer and enterprise GPUs. therefore wayland is a joke. But yeah, stick to your political puriatnism if it makes you feel better
      https://www.statista.com/statistics/...are-by-vendor/

      Not even close. 63% of GPU out there are Intel. 19% of GPU are in fact AMD and 18% is Nvidia. So the majority of consumer and enterprise GPU out there is Intel. Yes this is counting all your GPU in CPUs as well as your cards. Most people have no clue how many machines dell, hp.... make for business that are only integrated graphics with no possibility of putting in a graphics card.

      Wayland does support over 80 percent of the PC general market GPUs. When you get into performance fields these numbers are way different with Nvidia leading at this stage.

      240Hz enterprise has a lot of usage cases where powerful GPU is pointless. Think point of sales computer what use is a powerful GPU there? What about the computer you are doing accountancy on another case were intel cpu integrated GPU is good enough. There is a huge number of x86 computers made every year that could not run a modern game at all but for where they are used in enterprise that is not required either. Enterprise GPU market has a massive amount of integrated Intel and a growing amd APU with GPU cards being in limited systems. Consumer GPU market is more Nvidia is also more game focused and more likely to in fact have a GPU card.

      240Hz I guess you have been presuming that the consumer and enterprise are close to the same reality they are not. Wayland if you take enterprise alone in GPU in systems you will find with its AMD/Intel combination is 95% market coverage. GPU cards in enterprise are the rarity not the common and Nvidia market share in enterprise is not really that high.

      Consumer and Enterprise PC markets are very different.

      240Hz you would have been right if you had just said consumer GPUs you are wrong when you say consumer and enterprise GPUs because that basically flips the way it looks on it ear due to how far dominated by integrated graphics/APU that enterprise market is.

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      • #33
        Hi @Michael,

        The title is misleading: you said that two projects joined KWinFT, but in fact nobody joined (supported) the KWin fork and the author had to fork two more libraries on his own.
        Please correct the title to prevent the wrong impression about hypothetical KWinFT support.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

          https://www.statista.com/statistics/...are-by-vendor/

          Not even close. 63% of GPU out there are Intel. 19% of GPU are in fact AMD and 18% is Nvidia. So the majority of consumer and enterprise GPU out there is Intel.
          That is an interesting total-market statistic but doesn't say much about desktop workstations where people would be installing Gnome or KDE. I also have Intel integrated graphics as well as NVidia, so my machine would get counted as one of both, but I only actually care about whether the NVidia cards work.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

            https://www.statista.com/statistics/...are-by-vendor/

            Not even close. 63% of GPU out there are Intel. 19% of GPU are in fact AMD and 18% is Nvidia. So the majority of consumer and enterprise GPU out there is Intel. Yes this is counting all your GPU in CPUs as well as your cards. Most people have no clue how many machines dell, hp.... make for business that are only integrated graphics with no possibility of putting in a graphics card.

            Wayland does support over 80 percent of the PC general market GPUs. When you get into performance fields these numbers are way different with Nvidia leading at this stage.

            240Hz enterprise has a lot of usage cases where powerful GPU is pointless. Think point of sales computer what use is a powerful GPU there? What about the computer you are doing accountancy on another case were intel cpu integrated GPU is good enough. There is a huge number of x86 computers made every year that could not run a modern game at all but for where they are used in enterprise that is not required either. Enterprise GPU market has a massive amount of integrated Intel and a growing amd APU with GPU cards being in limited systems. Consumer GPU market is more Nvidia is also more game focused and more likely to in fact have a GPU card.

            240Hz I guess you have been presuming that the consumer and enterprise are close to the same reality they are not. Wayland if you take enterprise alone in GPU in systems you will find with its AMD/Intel combination is 95% market coverage. GPU cards in enterprise are the rarity not the common and Nvidia market share in enterprise is not really that high.

            Consumer and Enterprise PC markets are very different.

            240Hz you would have been right if you had just said consumer GPUs you are wrong when you say consumer and enterprise GPUs because that basically flips the way it looks on it ear due to how far dominated by integrated graphics/APU that enterprise market is.
            I am sure wayland runs nicely on servers without a GUI lol , it seems you completely missed the point. Those who need GPUs need Nvidia and Wayland doesn't cut it

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            • #36
              Originally posted by 144Hz View Post
              tildearrow The de-cute effort is an opinion AND an ongoing action. The kwin forkers are doing the work right now. Removing Qt deps because Qtwayland is very poor fit for wayland desktops. It’s not something you can stop.
              Yes, but it's not like they are dropping Qt entirely for KWin. You're just desperate to say "Victory!".

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              • #37
                Originally posted by miabrahams View Post
                That is an interesting total-market statistic but doesn't say much about desktop workstations where people would be installing Gnome or KDE. I also have Intel integrated graphics as well as NVidia, so my machine would get counted as one of both, but I only actually care about whether the NVidia cards work.
                Even allowing for the overlap Nvidia market share is less than Intel by a large Margin. Remember Intel is 60 percent+ Nvidia is less than 20. Lets say you subtract the AMD and Nvidia from the Intel number. That leaves 20 percent pure Intel. Intel does not make every processor with integrated graphics.

                Intel has the largest number of computers as their GPU alone there is not enough AMD or Nvidia gpus made to covert the Intel ones.

                There are a lot business workstations and laptops where the only GPU is the Intel one. This may change as AMD APU get more market share. Nvidia is not competing in this integrated market at all.

                Originally posted by 240Hz View Post
                I am sure wayland runs nicely on servers without a GUI lol ,
                Sorry lot of servers these days are not run 100 percent GUI less. https://github.com/openbmc/obmc-ikvm you don't need a keyboard mouse and screen plugged in to use the servers GUI any more. Yes your openbmc on server motherboards you might be in by obmc-ikvm using a graphical tool to modify a commercial database.

                Originally posted by 240Hz View Post
                Those who need GPUs need Nvidia and Wayland doesn't cut it
                Another bold face lie. There are a lot of workloads that don't need top end GPUs where AMD GPU cards are in fact more than suitable. Just because someone needs a GPU todo something does not mean it always Nvidia. There are quite a few tasks that need a decanted GPU on card where having AMD or NVIDIA in performance make no difference what so ever.

                1) your average desktop if you don't split it by targeted market is most Intel graphics over 60%. Because majority of your desktop computers really don't need to do much. Some word-processing, accountancy, email, web serous-ally this workloads really don't need a decanted on card GPU.

                https://www.wepc.com/tips/amd-vs-nvidia/
                2) the majority of graphics cards sold are mid range or lower. When I say majority I mean over 90 percent.

                Reality is not what most want to hear those who really do need a Nvidia GPU card for what they are doing is really in the 1% of the market or less. 99 percent of the market is midrange GPU or lower requirement to get job done that can be serviced by AMD cards or intel intergrated or AMD APU.

                Do we really need to bend over backwards for 1% of the market.

                Of course those who have a Nvidia card and would have to change is another mater.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by 144Hz View Post
                  tildearrow The de-cute effort is an opinion AND an ongoing action. The kwin forkers are doing the work right now. Removing Qt deps because Qtwayland is very poor fit for wayland desktops. It’s not something you can stop.
                  As always, nosense and factually incorrect from 144Hz. But as trolling goes, not to bad. He exaggerate and mixing up facts, so classic troll behavior. A little surprising that, but I suspect the "quality" of the trolling is more a coincidence than actual skill on his part. Since I have long since realized he is not a real troll, but classified him as not to bright with zealot tendencies.

                  Obviously there is no ongoing "de-cute" effort in KDE.
                  And it's only one kwin forker, so no plural.

                  Of course Qtwayland is very a good fit for Wayland desktops. Using it for desktop applications that is. And it is a good fit for applications under other Wayland use cases, as proven by the millions of devices shipped with it. On a application level, there are really no meaningful difference for desktops or others, with regards to Wayland so that's a non issue.

                  The fact he is mixing up, is that Qtwayland is not the right fit for some parts of a Wayland compositor, like KWin. Since Qtwayland is developed for applications not compositors, this is not a surprise. And this is something the KWin developers have made clear years ago, more or less from the start of the Wayland port.


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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Morty View Post

                    Since Qtwayland is developed for applications not compositors, this is not a surprise
                    Does anyone here checks the facts before posting? QtWayland provides wayland platform plugin (which is transparent for a developer) and "provides QML and C++ API for writing custom Wayland display servers". The compositor API used by Qt Automotive Suite for "low-latency", "small footprint", etc... wayland compositor.

                    https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qtwaylandcompositor-index.html
                    https://code.qt.io/cgit/qt/qtwayland.git/tree/README

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Morty View Post

                      As always, nosense and factually incorrect from 144Hz. But as trolling goes, not to bad. He exaggerate and mixing up facts, so classic troll behavior. A little surprising that, but I suspect the "quality" of the trolling is more a coincidence than actual skill on his part. Since I have long since realized he is not a real troll, but classified him as not to bright with zealot tendencies.
                      He just does some really clever trolling and either:
                      - successfully lures people to like him and make his crusade grow
                      - makes accounts to like himself

                      Originally posted by Morty View Post
                      Obviously there is no ongoing "de-cute" effort in KDE.
                      And it's only one kwin forker, so no plural.
                      It's not only one.
                      KWin forker here.

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