GNOME 3.37.1 Released As The First Step Towards GNOME 3.38

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  • mppix
    replied
    Originally posted by Mez' View Post
    I don't have much choice though. Still the closest thing (with 15 extensions) to an efficient workflow, although every 6 months it's factually requiring more mouse movements, more clicks, more extensions, offering less features, less configuration and in my opinion getting further and further away from the paradigm it was created for.

    I'm always up for good explanations. I label some as fanboys because they agree to everything like little sheeps. They don't think. They accept without blinking whatever's thrown at them as if it was the single version of the truth. That's not how it works, there are as many truths as there are people (less the fanboys). Which is why configuration is important. But Gnome is limiting choices.
    I respect the choice of people (if they can think by themselves) even those using vanilla Gnome, that's exactly why I'm asking for options, not for me but so that everyone can actually configure Gnome to some extent (without extensions for basic stuff) and get a satisfying workflow. It's for choice's sake.
    While this is one of your logically better structured posts, it exposes one fundamental flaw:
    In the free world, nobody gets to choose for others or discount their opinion - You can surely try but you are fighting windmills. Freedom only stops where the freedom of others starts.
    This is even more true in free software, where devs can choose to invest mostly their free time and users have a lot of choice.

    Btw. Gnome is known for quite a few good things. Configurability did not make that list.

    Leave a comment:


  • dkasak
    replied
    Originally posted by Mez' View Post
    Of human contributors resources.
    Oh *please*! That's clearly not how the contributors feel, or they wouldn't contribute. I ask again: have you asked for a refund? How much did you contribute? Or is your own "contribution" to troll release announcements? Hahahahahahahaha!

    Leave a comment:


  • kshanowski
    replied
    Ok I get your point of view. On the other hand If humans won't radically change consumption/lifestyle habits, future generations won't be able to fight flame wars. There is basically no other point of view, unless one is denying the reality. That is not what I believe, that is what is proven by science. And yes, most people follow this sheep mentality, but it doesn't prove that all movement is wrong. It's just as commercialized as everything else. It just surprised me, that you choose this as an example of mindless obedience. Lets say religion would be better example.

    Originally posted by Mez' View Post
    that everyone can actually configure Gnome to some extent (without extensions for basic stuff) and get a satisfying workflow. It's for choice's sake.
    So you can configure your gnome experience, but you don't like that it needs extensions? From what I know, they made it to be broadly extensible by extensions, that's the point of that DE. You've got choice. If one don't like out of the box experience, one can change it. If I like what I see, I leave it as it is and I don't have to search through options I don't really need. On the other hand there are different distributions that ship their own out of the box experience, that could be more or less easily adopted to our own desktop. What I don't like is how those extensions are not compatible between versions. I don't think that I'm a fan boy. To be honest as long as my keyboard shortcuts works, it doesn't really matter what DE I'm using.

    Surprisingly I've got better cpu temperatures (and much less fan noise, if any) in gnome, that in bspwm. This DE is not all about what can we see and how we use it, but also how it manages resources. And that's the topic I don't have much to say, so I have to trust gnome developers and follow their path would you call me a sheep? Would you call a sheep someone who just want to use their desktop for their work?

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  • Mez'
    replied
    Originally posted by Eso Kerman View Post
    If you don't like GNOME, there are many GTK alternatives. I would appreciate it if you would stop speaking for me with ideas that only concern you. Not everyone likes the traditional desktop. I find it annoying and outdated. This is also true for people I know who are lost in an office where you have to click everywhere.

    GNOME is visual and instinctive. The traditional desktop suits you because you are used to it. Those who have taken the trouble to change their habits or who are new to computers tell me that GNOME is better. If you are not interested, as I said, there are many GTK alternatives, so why complain?

    Congratulations to the GNOME team who continue to improve their vision despite the hatred of purists.
    Hard to speak for you if you hadn't written before...

    I also find the traditional desktop annoying and outdated. Doesn't mean we have to be pleased with everything Gnome does. If it goes against our own workflow, we can still express disagreement, and YET believe the paradigm is the right one.
    This has nothing to do with purists. (Gnome 2) Purists are long gone to Mate and Cinnamon. Neither does it have to do with changes of habits, Unity required the same change as Gnome 3. Blaming resistance to change is the kind of reply you get from people without strong arguments.
    The one criticizing are the one that still stand behind the paradigm (represented by Unity/Gnome 3) but see their Gnome workflow stripped down and harder to use with every new release.
    For me, it's still the closest DE I can get to the paradigm. Unfortunately Unity is unmaintained, which is why I'm using Gnome. But I still believe Unity was implemented with a much better vision (in my point of view) and much more consideration for the end-user. It was realistic because it was disruptive and yet it took into account how common people use a computer. Gnome wrongly assume their users are all nerd.

    Originally posted by kshanowski View Post
    Some people (or maybe most?) just dont understand the progress. He even mixed up ecologists and vegans with gnome design, jeez.
    Because the narrow-minded spirit is the exact same. They want to impose their belief to everyone, regardless of others' opinions. They're not progressive, they're just dictators of the one-track thinking. There's only one truth, their own. And sheeps say yes and start spreading. A bit like a cult actually. Gnome and the movements I mentioned are made for followers, not for people thinking on their own. You can see it with some posters here, they strongly agree to everything Gnome does. They have no will or preference of their own.

    Originally posted by mppix View Post

    Relax. Nobody is forcing you. Use what you want.

    Also, It is rather narrow minded to try label anyone fanboy when they try to explain why things change.

    As said in another post. If everyone else seems to have a problem, it usually you.
    I don't have much choice though. Still the closest thing (with 15 extensions) to an efficient workflow, although every 6 months it's factually requiring more mouse movements, more clicks, more extensions, offering less features, less configuration and in my opinion getting further and further away from the paradigm it was created for.

    I'm always up for good explanations. I label some as fanboys because they agree to everything like little sheeps. They don't think. They accept without blinking whatever's thrown at them as if it was the single version of the truth. That's not how it works, there are as many truths as there are people (less the fanboys). Which is why configuration is important. But Gnome is limiting choices.
    I respect the choice of people (if they can think by themselves) even those using vanilla Gnome, that's exactly why I'm asking for options, not for me but so that everyone can actually configure Gnome to some extent (without extensions for basic stuff) and get a satisfying workflow. It's for choice's sake.
    Last edited by Mez'; 03 May 2020, 10:44 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • kshanowski
    replied
    Some people (or maybe most?) just dont understand the progress. He even mixed up ecologists and vegans with gnome design, jeez. Personally I use gnome on laptop, where its great, and xfce on desktop, just to mix some things up, and guess what, its also great. Someone mentioned that gnome is mouse oriented? It is not. That's what makes it great for laptops where keyboard with slight assistance from touchpad creates great workflow. I've been using bspwm for some time and I would compare gnome to this experience. I need to check this pop os tilling feature.

    Leave a comment:


  • mppix
    replied
    Originally posted by Mez' View Post
    Supposedly, yes. But the Gnome team doesn't think so. They don't like users making their own choices.

    The Gnome team has been removing popular features, and not giving many options (even basic ones) is their way of forcing people to use their design in the way they decided it.

    Asking for basic options will remain forever unheard, even though there are widely commonly shared requests (if only the most demanded) or not.

    There's no bottom-up here. It's just top-down. Kind of a dictatorship.
    It works for all the yes men such as Britoid and the likes, with little to no critical mind and thinking of their own. A bit like Apple fanboys. If they are given something, they'll embrace it and defend it like a cult. They won't question one single design decision.

    In the end, because of this totalitarian approach, they made many people leave.
    We are not all yes sheeps swallowing every drop of what Gnome designers are forcing down our throats.

    For many, this has nothing to do with the UI concept, what is polarizing is not the paradigm, it's how Gnome decided to implement it, with few options and with the absolute refusal (burying their head deep into their ***es) that users all have their own workflow. If users do, they'll strip it down so as to force you using Gnome their way. It's like those ecologists or vegans. It's the tyranny of the one-way thinking.

    Exactly. We need ridiculous extensions for basic stuff. Just for desktop icons (that I don't use), move a clock, or to allow theming.

    And indeed. Vanilla Gnome is made for nerds having their left hand (if not both) on the keyboard at all times. Not everybody wants that. Most people use the mouse as much as possible for a reason these days. And Gnome is an absolute pain with a mouse. Way too many wide movements.
    Relax. Nobody is forcing you. Use what you want.

    Also, It is rather narrow minded to try label anyone fanboy when they try to explain why things change.

    As said in another post. If everyone else seems to have a problem, it usually you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eso Kerman
    replied
    Hello there !

    I've been reading the articles and comments on this site since long time ago. I finally decided to create an account to comment.

    I use GNOME without any problems, in vanilla. I used Windows years ago before switching to Linux, I started with XFCE and used KDE and Openbox. I always come back to GNOME. Also, I've installed Fedora Workstation to many people to whom I've only explained the activities menu. They are doing great and are very happy.

    Why do I say this? Because GNOME gets insulted everywhere, even when it's irrelevant, like the last article on QT6.

    If you don't like GNOME, there are many GTK alternatives. I would appreciate it if you would stop speaking for me with ideas that only concern you. Not everyone likes the traditional desktop. I find it annoying and outdated. This is also true for people I know who are lost in an office where you have to click everywhere.

    GNOME is visual and instinctive. The traditional desktop suits you because you are used to it. Those who have taken the trouble to change their habits or who are new to computers tell me that GNOME is better. If you are not interested, as I said, there are many GTK alternatives, so why complain?

    Congratulations to the GNOME team who continue to improve their vision despite the hatred of purists, and congratulations to the other teams who create other great desktops.

    Sorry if my English is bad, it's not my native language.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mez'
    replied
    Originally posted by mppix View Post

    Actually, I find vanilla Gnome quite usable. It certainly has a different workflow: press super and type the first 3 letters what you need + enter (if you want the exiting open app) or ctrl+enter (if you want a new window)- for me, this is way faster.

    Also, Gnome is unlikely to abandon its UI concept, which is distinct, i.e. not copied from Win, and therefore obviously polarizing.
    However, time I checked, Ubuntu and friend's UI is mostly unchanged since forever (and Cinnamon is a Gnome3 fork).

    That being said, everyone should use what works best for them no?
    Supposedly, yes. But the Gnome team doesn't think so. They don't like users making their own choices.

    The Gnome team has been removing popular features, and not giving many options (even basic ones) is their way of forcing people to use their design in the way they decided it.

    Asking for basic options will remain forever unheard, even though there are widely commonly shared requests (if only the most demanded) or not.

    There's no bottom-up here. It's just top-down. Kind of a dictatorship.
    It works for all the yes men such as Britoid and the likes, with little to no critical mind and thinking of their own. A bit like Apple fanboys. If they are given something, they'll embrace it and defend it like a cult. They won't question one single design decision.

    In the end, because of this totalitarian approach, they made many people leave.
    We are not all yes sheeps swallowing every drop of what Gnome designers are forcing down our throats.

    For many, this has nothing to do with the UI concept, what is polarizing is not the paradigm, it's how Gnome decided to implement it, with few options and with the absolute refusal (burying their head deep into their ***es) that users all have their own workflow. If users do, they'll strip it down so as to force you using Gnome their way. It's like those ecologists or vegans. It's the tyranny of the one-way thinking.

    Originally posted by gregzeng View Post
    The other way to state this is that the official GNOME is so unfriendly that these other coders decide to change the defaults.

    On most GNOME environments now, the pointer or mouse is forced to move extremely from one corner of the screen to any of the other corners.
    Exactly. We need ridiculous extensions for basic stuff. Just for desktop icons (that I don't use), move a clock, or to allow theming.

    And indeed. Vanilla Gnome is made for nerds having their left hand (if not both) on the keyboard at all times. Not everybody wants that. Most people use the mouse as much as possible for a reason these days. And Gnome is an absolute pain with a mouse. Way too many wide movements.
    Last edited by Mez'; 02 May 2020, 07:07 AM.

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  • Mez'
    replied
    Originally posted by dkasak View Post

    Waste of whose resources, precisely? Did you ask for a refund?
    Of human contributors resources. Reading understanding was not where you got your best scores at school.
    A project (and sub-projects) is still a project, whether the user pays or don't pay for it. It's as much a pool of resources to be allocated to achieve outcomes.
    It's not because I'm using it for free that I can't point out how the vision is partly broken and too dispersed.
    But keep burying your head in the sand. It's what Gnome fanboys do best. It's like a herd of ostriches. It's almost funny how you all refuse to listen.

    Leave a comment:


  • moilami
    replied
    Originally posted by mppix View Post

    Debian Gnome has a minimize button?
    I meant menu item "minimize window" when you right click the header bar. It haven't had traditional minimize button since Gnome 3.0 or 3.2 or something?

    And it turned out that Gnome with Xorg do have header bar and proper menu item when right clicked. But for whatever reason, Gnome with Wayland does not have.

    Debian Bullseye. I think someone could blame systemd of that

    Leave a comment:

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