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Ubuntu 20.04 GNOME X.Org vs. Wayland Session Performance Impact For Gaming

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  • oiaohm
    replied
    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    Wayland was never a practical, but a political project.
    No Wayland starts from a practical problem. Linux X11 desktop has a lower security rating than Windows and OS X even with XACE enabled there are too many things in the X11 protocol not designed securely.

    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    Anyone who cares about running games fast avoids GNOME and chooses a Xfce, LXDE, MATE or some other light-weight desktop.
    Liar Liar Pants On Fire with this statement.
    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...-1904-desktops
    This is a set of benchmarks before the recent improvements. Xfce and Mate only once by more than margin of testing error in that old benchmark does it beats GNOME Shell Wayland in gaming every other time it they lose. LXDE was not beating normal Gnome on X11 back then most of the time either.

    Basically a person choosing lightweight desktop to get performance is making a mistake. The recent changes could make LXDE slower Gnome Wayland. Yes the general Gnome has got faster as well since then. Xfce. LXDE and Mate don't have the developers to put into performance optimisation work like Gnome and KDE does and it shows in game benchmarks a lot. Yes there have been no major performance improvements in Xfce, LXDE and Mate since 19.04 so now Xfce and Mate are losing by more margin and LXDE has basically no advantage.

    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    So whenever you're telling people how Wayland will become practical one day are you just underlining how political it still is. That's how 10 years can pass - or 15+ pages.
    No wayland is practical today because wayland desktops have a higher security rating than X11 ones to start off with. Also wayland desktops are very well performing over all. Really there is no point benchmarking gnome wayland desktop against xfce or mate because they would not provide it with any form of challenge because xfce and mate are slow in performance.

    sdack you have been wanting to use these benchmark alone to make a point you really should have read more. Do note that prior set of benchmarks had one application using wayland backend and the wayland version of gnome kicked everything ass back then before improvements.

    For a lot of games the gnome wayland desktop has passed the practical level of performance quite a while ago if they class xfce and mate performance as acceptable.

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  • pal666
    replied
    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    Wayland was never a practical, but a political project. It set out to eliminate what was already dead, and people sucked it up anyway. And they chose a radical approach, when people needed a practical one.
    they actually chose practical approach. x11 still works, while they are working on better alternative, so everyone is happy
    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    By the time Wayland gains a major significance will it be as old as X11 was at the time of it's introduction. That's not practical at all.
    that's most practical of all available alternatives since you didn't provide more practical one, did you?

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  • tildearrow
    replied
    Originally posted by intelfx View Post

    Would you kindly fuck off and stop editing/wiping other users' posts just because you felt so?

    Does this site has any kind of participation rules or something that would permit this kind of behavior?
    You are a traitor!

    Let the other desktops die then and hell take over!

    I fucked off now. Happy?! You think 144Hz rules the forum, don't you?!
    Last edited by tildearrow; 01 April 2020, 01:11 PM.

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  • sdack
    replied
    Wayland was never a practical, but a political project. It set out to eliminate what was already dead, and people sucked it up anyway. And they chose a radical approach, when people needed a practical one. Why it's still around isn't because of it's politics, but because it doesn't have competition other than what's already dead and because it serves GNOME as a fix, because "GNOME" and "fast" aren't words that appear often in one sentence. Users then care more for the theme of their mouse cursor than for Wayland. Anyone who cares about running games fast avoids GNOME and chooses a Xfce, LXDE, MATE or some other light-weight desktop. By the time Wayland gains a major significance will it be as old as X11 was at the time of it's introduction. That's not practical at all.

    Systemd is practical. It's in fact so practical that it caused a political outrage. FFmpeg is practical, but it's fork avconv was motivated by politics and hasn't gained much significance. Meson&Ninja, much disliked by some for political reasons, but proving to be practical, keeps gaining significance. LLVM, started as a practical project, then people tried turning it into a political one, but it kept it's course and has given us many practical uses and positively influenced GCC's development. The Linux kernel itself is one of the most practical projects in IT history. A lot of politics surround it, but as long as Linus Torvalds is in charge is this not changing. Hurd is political. I could go on giving examples of practical and political projects, but the point is that the more people avoid politics and instead aim for practicality do projects get a far more support and achieve goals far sooner.

    So whenever you're telling people how Wayland will become practical one day are you just underlining how political it still is. That's how 10 years can pass - or 15+ pages.
    Last edited by sdack; 01 April 2020, 08:09 AM.

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  • pal666
    replied
    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    Oh, I know. And you're adding more excuses to the pile. Nothing is changing these benchmark results.
    moron, nobody is trying to change these results. these results are wonderful: wayland is so fast that stacking it on top of x11 doesn't make games slower. which means getting rid of x11 will make games even faster

    Leave a comment:


  • pal666
    replied
    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    No, there is nothing "legacy" about running games on Linux.
    moron, nobody said that. "running games" isn't legacy. but some games are legacy. and some games are not legacy by themselves, but use sdl which have native wayland support, but can be run in legacy x11 mode. and this benchmark was run in legacy x11 mode
    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    when you say Wayland isn't supposed to support X11 (when in fact it is).
    in fact you are idiot who is unable to learn
    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    You're not going to claim Wayland has turned Windows apps into "legacy Windows apps", or do you?
    of course not, that was linux. linux has turned windows apps into "legacy Windows apps"
    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    do you in fact want Wayland to be the successor to X11 when you give X11 apps the "legacy" status.
    you can't have successor to x11 without giving x11 apps the "legacy" status. if they aren't legacy, then there's no succession
    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    Your problem only is that Wayland isn't a suitable successor
    that's your (imaginary) problem
    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    So who wants to use Wayland when the most demanding applications still run better under old X11?
    games will run better under wayland. this benchmark was not running them under wayland, it was running them under x11 or under x11+wayland
    Last edited by pal666; 01 April 2020, 06:11 AM.

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  • pal666
    replied
    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    No, you're just limiting your own comprehension. Of course can one support it and replace it.
    moron, what you are trying to describe is called "extend". "replace" is mutually incompatible with "support". "extend" is what x11 was doing since 1987 and by now it's in a dead end

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  • pal666
    replied
    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    It was supposed to support X11 and to replace it, which is why it has the support for it or we wouldn't be having this discussion.
    it was never supposed to support x11, there's x11 for that. it was supposed to be x12, but obviously there's a lot of legacy x11 software in the wild which will never be ported to x12, so there should be some way to run in under wayland. just like some legacy win32 software will never be ported to linux and we need wine to run it and not necessarily faster than native linux build
    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    I guess you'll never stop making excuses and keep trying to side-track the lack of performance. It's only not going away. Only people will go away and stop paying attention to it, which I assume is why after all these years it just doesn't find many fans.
    i guess you'll never stop being an idiot

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  • pal666
    replied
    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    Just more of the same excuses.
    just more of the same complete lack of clue
    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    If Wayland wasn't supposed to support X11 then it's actually quite surprising to see that X11 software runs under it.
    x11 software doesn't run under wayland. it runs under x11 on x11 server which itself is wayland software and runs under wayland. that x11 server is called xwayland
    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    Nobody but a few nerds care how it's handled under the hood, but what matters is the end result.
    nobody but a few idiots would argue that "doesn't run at all" is better than "runs at 99.99% speed"
    Last edited by pal666; 01 April 2020, 06:26 AM.

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  • intelfx
    replied
    Originally posted by tildearrow View Post

    Did you just tell us that GNOME won and it should be the only desktop?!

    It's enough. You are A FREAKING DISGRACE.

    *sighs* No, you know what... I can't tolerate this. I am going to delete your post.
    Would you kindly fuck off and stop editing/wiping other users' posts just because you felt so?

    Does this site has any kind of participation rules or something that would permit this kind of behavior?
    Last edited by intelfx; 01 April 2020, 12:11 AM.

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