KDE Saw Many Bug Fixes This Week From KWin Crashes To Plasma Wayland Improvements

[polarathene]

It's just how I work I suppose - I do consulting for various clients at a time, so I get in a habit of having documents from libreoffice and gedit open with various configs or inventory data to reference quickly, 5-6 different browsers full of tabs for each customer, various IDE/Editors - why the multiple monitors. I also tend to run different vm system/appliances, so uptime is somewhat important as a server would be for all these reasons. Probably a bit of abuse of the term "desktop"

Sounds like you should be running a bare server not a DE as the host system. That'll have no issues with uptime, and you can keep your services/appliances running via VMs no issue. The other use cases that need DE with GUI apps would be served well with a VM per client you have. If it's a driver issue, perhaps a virtual video driver like VMWares might be more stable for you, or you can more easily use whatever DE/OS suits you best on a per case basis.

For most apps, traditional VM setups should be sufficient, you can get fullscreen and multi-screen going where each screen is a window until you set it to be fullscreen, that should work around the TV display state issues that cause you problems with windows being shuffled around, since they'll all still be contained in that specific window like a group.

For any case where you need more native like graphic performance, there is VFIO(see r/vfio for a community around this that's quite helpful, Arch Wiki has plenty of juicy info too on getting setup). This isn't just for graphics though, you can get near native/host performance in your VM guests for practically any part of the system. Generally this is slicing up the system resources however as you pass them to the guest to use exclusively(eg you can assign cores/threads just for that VM, disks, GPU, memory allocation etc), sort of like running multiple host OS in parallel.

This does have a drawback that the VMs lose certain state features like being able to save the VM state/snapshot, it ends up like a host system where you can suspend/shutdown/hibernate it instead only(depending on the resources). If you pass through a GPU(Intel iGPU can have it's resources split across VMs, whereas a dGPU like nvidia would be a full passthrough), then instead of virtual displays, you get direct display output from the GPU like a host system, that display is no longer shared with anything else(unless you have multiple inputs to it and a way to toggle/cycle through them).

Splitting up your work this way would allow you to be a bit more flexible, so that if there is a compositor issue, it's more localized to a smaller scope that doesn't affect the rest of your system, and you might be in a better position to fix it more easily(such as a reboot of the VM). It'd be useful for me as well, I definitely don't need all my browser windows/tabs and apps open 24/7 for variety of projects munged together, so it'd provide better separation of my projects...but I've yet to actually sort this out. It's better these days as the issues I had when first looking into this kind of setup was related to file sharing/access being a bit annoying, now there are things like virtio-fs that I think better address this.

It's very common for Windows OS to be run in r/vfio, there's a software called Looking Glass which allows for using the GPU passthrough approach but displaying those screens in a resizable/movable window like a traditional VM, yet more efficient than VNC as instead of network screen capture it writes to RAM from the guest and the host(or another guest) reads from that same shared memory to display it. Only captures for Windows though I think, no Linux guest support. You can also combo that with display dummy plugs, these use a display output and emulate a connected display of whatever resolution/framerate, then you can have have your host connected displays share the same display device physically as your guest VM, but powered by two different OS and GPU.

One other benefit of all this, is with Intel at least, there is a live migration feature that can send one VM state to another machine, eg from desktop to laptop or vice versa. So long as the resources/requirements are sufficient for migrating the VM across the two systems. The base image can be on both systems, and you're just transferring the state, so it's not necessarily as big of a transfer as it sounds once setup.

Newest KDE seems to have gotten better about putting windows back where they were, but it has been quite fond of jumbling all my windows randomly

I'm always working with fixed displays, I don't change the display count on a system so I haven't experienced that. I do remember reading about something like that getting attention in past months, so perhaps it arrived with Plasma 5.18 or a recent monthly KDE Frameworks update?

It also uses an absolute ton of cpu, memory, and gpu in doing so too. My desktop had 20 cores/128gb of ram, my laptop has 8 cores/64gb ram

I only recall CPU usage going high when kwin has fucked up, that's when it's not able to recover properly and problems start to occur. With the current desktop system for example, I can't seem to view 3D content in sketchfab, it cites some compatibility error and goes to 360 image rotation mode, should resolve itself once I am ready to restart the system. But when kwin is no longer using the GPU properly, it will use more CPU for anything it's doing like window resizing/moving iirc.

Can also happen if updating the system kernel I think, maybe GPU drivers too(nvidia). I know that my system won't restart/shutdown via GUI methods after some updates due to this(the old kernel that is running has had it's modules deleted, and it can't find the nvidia driver or whatever, which usually causes other problems for anything that wants to use the GPU). While sketchfab wouldn't work, some other WebGL demo I tried last night on this system lagged horrendously, all my CPU was on full load and it was struggling to render a few frames a second, I think it will handle that much better after a restart.

My laptop with only 2 cores i3 CPU and 4GB RAM, no dGPU only the Intel iGPU can boot with ~500MB of RAM in use, and 0-1% CPU idle, desktop is probably similar, but I know it gets worse over time, especially when kwin fails and compositing takes a dive as a result.

My track record with nvidia has not been great the past few years, starting to consider amd again as a gpu solution.

Each option has issues afaik. Nvidia gets a lot of shit, but despite all the praise AMD gets, there's been plenty of cases when it's been pretty bad too. Sometimes it's specific GPU models/products that you need to do a bit of research into(harder if it's fairly new product), other times it's just needing newer kernel/mesa, or waiting several years. If you don't need much vRAM or GPU grunt, going with older GPU are apparently good, not too old though(I got an R240 or something, budget GPU, but it was one generation too old to benefit from something that I wanted/cared about). RX580 is apparently decent these days, might serve you well?

Do note that on laptops, AMD is only about to get the power saving feature support PSR for laptop displays(provided your display uses eDP 1.3 or higher iirc, I bought a laptop end of last year which while a new 2019Q3 release, used a 2017 manufactured display and eDP 1.2 which was from 2011? eDP 1.3 came out a year later, so I lucked out thinking the 10th gen Intel CPU and WiFI AX was new enough that surely they'd not skimp on display tech that old considering the benefits). AMD gets this support with it's drivers coming in the 5.7 kernel afaik, intel has had it for a long time(not relevant to nvidia as the display for laptops is usually handled by intel and nvidia does some interaction with intels framebuffer to route it's output afaik).

AMD might turn out better for you, just fair warning that it's not always great despite what the community tends to imply.

As the great equalizer in all this, I got sick enough of to dual boot up to windoze10 that came on my laptop, and actually try to use it for a bit. It couldn't deal with the resolutions either in either stability or choppiness on-screen, or even let me bring up fully the 3x 4k displays.

Could be due to hardware limitations? I don't know your particular setup or device capabilities, but I know from stuff like USB that there is a lot of gotchas despite whatever marketing claims, where they cite the protocols specs, but things like chipset and cable quality, the power supplied to that chipset from the device, and the target device(s) you connect to all contribute to what actually is not only supported but capable of. If the problem is consistent across OS and it seems like it shouldn't be an issue, it's probably due to hardware then.

A good example that is simpler to demonstrate that is wifi devices, despite all their other variables, they can claim Wifi 802.11N support, an astounding 150Mbps(less than 20MB/sec), even if all other variables were perfect for utilizing that bandwidth limit, the product only has to claim 802.11n support, not actually deliver that performance, similar can be seen with disk drives with poor performance but marketing themselves as SATA 3 with 6Gbps(~600MB/sec, less with SATA overhead, less again with USB overhead if an external).

[mikus]

Out of curiousity, why is it important to you for a DE to have such long uptime? Is there a problem with restarting/shutting down? Especially with modern hardware this generally doesn't take long at all.

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It's just how I work I suppose - I do consulting for various clients at a time, so I get in a habit of having documents from libreoffice and gedit open with various configs or inventory data to reference quickly, 5-6 different browsers full of tabs for each customer, various IDE/Editors - why the multiple monitors. I also tend to run different vm system/appliances, so uptime is somewhat important as a server would be for all these reasons. Probably a bit of abuse of the term "desktop", but I've largely worked this way for 15 years with linux desktops full-time.

Newest KDE seems to have gotten better about putting windows back where they were, but it has been quite fond of jumbling all my windows randomly, infuriating me in the process as per my first comment how I work. Even worse it was pretty dumb about it, and would take 3x 4k displays worth with dozens of app windows, and move them all the very far right-most display and window in doing so. As of 5.18.3, it doesn't seem to do that at very least anymore, but had on my prior version until recently upgraded my arch build.

Why does it jumble my windows? Display hotplug removal detection. I use 3x 48" tv's as my "monitors" for my desktop, and in doing so, they don't behave like a vga display would in powering down. When they power down, the pc no longer sees them on the wire, and tries to move all my windows - terribly. I get this commonly with my thunderbolt dock using my laptop on the same displays as my desktop, as sometimes it'll lose them even when the displays stay on, but the os powers them off.

Hardware + software quirks == annoying. I never have these display removal or window movement issues when using Cinnamon or Mate, though they do come with other quirks.

Compositing between desktops is a hugely varying thing, particularly in stability and performance. Kwin simply cannot handle 11520x2160 for more than a few days without coming unglued to the point it'll crash. It also uses an absolute ton of cpu, memory, and gpu in doing so too. My desktop had 20 cores/128gb of ram, my laptop has 8 cores/64gb ram, it isn't for a lack of resources and it would still destabilize within days as would a memory leak, but worse. I can disable kwin, but losing features there causes me other annoyances, mostly cairo-dock without compositing causes banding on my displays and overlay issue now.

Cinnamon compositing works pretty well lately if a little choppy with videos, only something (maybe it?) was causing a hard-lock every few days I never could figure out, so back to kde for now...

I use my laptop now with nvidia and intel gpu's, I just leave the nvidia without drivers, everything else proved unstable years ago last time I tried. I had to abandon my desktop as the 1070 video card would only load in ES mode with drivers out of nowhere (failure?), breaking any graphics loading, and never did figure out why. My track record with nvidia has not been great the past few years, starting to consider amd again as a gpu solution.

As the great equalizer in all this, I got sick enough of to dual boot up to windoze10 that came on my laptop, and actually try to use it for a bit. It couldn't deal with the resolutions either in either stability or choppiness on-screen, or even let me bring up fully the 3x 4k displays. Suddenly I'm a bit less angry at the DE linux counterparts now, but still, it would be nice to see some of these quirks addressed vs. frivolous new features, as I and dozens of others have posted bug reports for years about this, myself back as far as 4.x kde days.

[polarathene]

Again, a lot of blah blah blah blah. I am tired of this. You are presenting niche use cases as the norm. You are completely delusional. Who in their right mind runs LXDE with mainly KDE apps? Why use LXDE in the first place?

So you need a lightweight, barebones, desktop environment, but proceed to bring the KDE bloat to it anyway?

And all this just to pretend KDE apps should be considered a "different thing" than the KDE desktop. All this because you need to call it "Plasma 5" instead of "KDE 5" because you have vanity issues....

You know Linux in itself, distro/DE choices aside is considered niche already right? Silly issue to raise as not being the norm. Why use Linux in the first place?(that's rhetorical, you don't need to answer that)

KDE bloat? What exactly do you consider bloat? Last I knew that was something older versions of KDE had a bad reputation for regarding memory usage, but nowadays GNOME had taken that crown with it's poor performance and much higher memory usage. I understand there's been a lot of work to fix that now, so it probably isn't using over 1GB anymore and the compositor performance for things as simple as displaying the app menu/launcher should no longer be sluggish?

If bloat to you is in number of packages, that's a silly definition of bloat. If it's in file size, that's fair if you can quantify it as an actual concern, it likely uses a small portion of the total disk space available, so whatever the added filesize weight would be it's doubtful that it's a serious concern.

I used Gnome until around 2016 and switched to KDE, had too many issues with Gnome and it got better(but not perfect with KDE). The apps were often much nicer, if I were to go back to Gnome in future, I'd probably still use quite a few of the apps I've enjoyed that are maintained by KDE devs.

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As for the KDE vs Plasma thing, who cares. If you want to specifically talk about the desktop environment, people call it Plasma these days, but if you want to call it KDE and the context of whatever you're saying is rather evident that you're referring to the DE/Plasma, it really doesn't matter.

Adding a number though is a bit different, it's pretty clear that the version number is associated to Plasma now, while the other parts of KDE have their own respective version numbers(Frameworks retains 5.x currently, but point releases are monthly iterations, not in sync with Plasma 5.x releases, they're separate now, Applications where the actual apps are is under a year.month versioning scheme, again unrelated to a specific version of Plasma). So if there's a Plasma 6.x release, there could be a 6.x release for Frameworks, but Applications would not be adjusting it's versioning, thus it wouldn't fall under a KDE 5/6/7 would it?

Windows is mostly referred to as Windows, versioning is more specific and not sequential, Windows Vista, Windows 95, Windows 2000, Windows 7/8/?/10(let's skip 9 because we feel like it). In fact Windows 10 is intended to keep that number and be a rolling release of sorts, you instead get new releases/updates with a similar year/month versioning to reference them as is common with distros like Ubuntu or KDE Applications. If it helps, just say KDE Plasma 5.18, it's not really KDE 5 despite what past releases used prior to the change over.

Nothing wrong with just calling it KDE though like you would Windows or macOS(which is another story). Just bringing version/series numbers isn't really relevant anymore going forward.

[polarathene]

Is it too much to ask for them to simply fix multi-monitor desktop use after 15+ years? I've used KDE since 3.0 days, and it's still absolute crap.

If I enable compositing on my laptop, it destabilizes within days. On my desktop, a week or so. If I disable kwin compositing, it runs indefinitely. Hmm.

Compositing is the devil of every windowing system. I wish I could go back to 2008 before gpu compositing my devices would have uptimes of 6 months or more. Everything evil about linux has to do with compositing and gpu's I find.

Out of curiousity, why is it important to you for a DE to have such long uptime? Is there a problem with restarting/shutting down? Especially with modern hardware this generally doesn't take long at all.

I currently do that with my laptop or hibernate if I have state and not enough time to save/restore it for a proper shut down(but need to conserve battery), takes less than 30 seconds full circle, and that's with some boot prompts + password to unlock on resume.

On the desktop system(only an old Intel i5 Skylake, 4/4 cores/threads, SATA SSD, 32GB RAM, GTX 1070), I currently have an uptime of 49 days. I've had much longer, but this is usually due to hundreds of browser tabs(many windows) that accumulate among other apps which are less of an issue for me. I do a lot of research, and hop between several projects, not great at coming back to those tabs if I bookmark them(+ that loses any scroll state or highlighted text, etc), also tried saving sessions but not found that to work well for me either, so I just keep the tabs up til I allocate a few days to transfer the value in them to my notes. Plenty of tabs get opened/closed prior to that, but many still accumulate, some with state like form data(like a message being filled out), or some other temporal state that'd be lost if from events like kernel panic or power cuts(happened a few times much to my frustration, but hey I understand I've got poor task management skills and shouldn't let it get to that point).

Barely anyone I know has such an issue, so do you actually have state that is important for that uptime? Or is this just something you're expecting for convenience?(despite apparently not having good experiences with any DE).

The desktop system I have with it's uptime and running off the nvidia drivers does see it's fair share of kwin issues/crashes. Nvidia issues are mostly gone now afaik, haven't experienced quite a few that plagued me years ago. I haven't had to bring up a terminal and tell kwin to use --replace, but there is a problem I still experience. Especially with Chrome, all the tabs in certain windows can stop updating, nothing repaints inside unless I change focus to a different window or resize the window, only fix is to select all tabs but one and drag those out to get a new window instance, then bring that other tab over to the new window. When that happens some other apps may behave similarly, I guess based on how long they've been running for. I have Konsole with htop for example that atm is working properly, but earlier was alternating between two frames, similar has happened with KSysGuard. Same solution, just kill the window and bring up a new instance. A reboot is probably better though.

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That's problems with kwin/nvidia though, not sure how mult-monitor has anything to do with it? If you're issue is with compositing, just leave kwin disabled? You say it meets the expectation of long uptime which seems to be more important to you? Have you tried Wayland with Intel? Same issue? X11 has some pretty bad drawbacks that might be causing your specific issues? All multiple monitors are in X11 is on big screen with cropping IIRC, it's pretty inefficient too when it comes to screen capture due to that, lot of excess copies need to be done.

[dragon321]

Looking back, there's KDE 1, KDE 2, KDE 3, KDE 4, Plasma 4, and Plasma 5. KDE 5 might not be the actual, official name of the desktop, but it makes sense why people call it that. The K Desktop Environment might have given every subproject its own name and we're supposed to refer to each little subproject by that name...you know, KDE Applications, KDE Frameworks, Plasma...or we can just wrap it all under the name KDE 5 when discussing it because we all know what we're all talking about.

Yeah, but previous versions wasn't modular like KDE is now. It was complete package. Now it's divided to modules. For talking about all - i just call it "KDE".

1) Because the project had been known for decades as KDE. Decades. It still uses that name in many places and files. Just because its developers wanted to decouple their shell (Plasma) from the apps (KDE applications) and the libraries (kde frameworks) does not mean i will play their game. It is just KDE, period. It is simple, short, and everyone understands it perfectly.

2) I disagree, for me (AMD with latest MESA) Wayland on KDE still crashes frequently out of the blue without reason.

1) But it's still named KDE. "Plasma" is name just for desktop and KDE is not just desktop. I didn't said calling it just "KDE" is wrong, I said there isn't such thing as KDE 5.

2) Didn't noticed in my hardware but I'm not using it everyday.

[skeevy420]

Again, a lot of blah blah blah blah. I am tired of this. You are presenting niche use cases as the norm. You are completely delusional. Who in their right mind runs LXDE with mainly KDE apps? Why use LXDE in the first place? In order to run KDE apps you need to run their libs too, and those are interconnected, KDE apps are NOT separate from the rest of the KDE desktop contrary to their claim. So you need a lightweight, barebones, desktop environment, but proceed to bring the KDE bloat to it anyway? Yeah right.... And even if there was not KDE bloat and KDE apps on LXDE were like "native" LXDE apps, even then there would be graphical consistency issues here....

And all this just to pretend KDE apps should be considered a "different thing" than the KDE desktop. All this because you need to call it "Plasma 5" instead of "KDE 5" because you have vanity issues....

Me. Started with Gnome2, moved onto XFCE and LXDE for a bit, eventually went to Plasma. I used the same core KDE apps from Gnome2 all the way until Plasma...well, that's a bit of a lie, I used a mix of core Gnome2 and KDE apps until GTK3 came and I found Gedit to be unusable and then dropped most of the GTK programs I was still using with the logic of -- if Gedit was bastardized like that, what might they do to the rest?

But I find something that works for me and i stick with it. For me that's the programs from the KDE application ecosystem. Doesn't matter what DE I'm using, they make good applications and I use them.

[Nth_man]

> Blah blah blah blah lots of BS here from a KDE fanboy....

You have showed yourself as you are, everything is clear now, there's no point in continuing nor watching again this thread. If you see nobody answering you, is because they know by now how you are, and have left you alone.

[TemplarGR]

That really should be a sign for me to just step back and let you be an object lesson in "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt," but it's cathartic to give in to that "Someone is wrong on the Internet!" urge every now and then.



My brother used to use GIMP exclusively for years. When he finally discovered Krita, he switched to it because it's better for digital painting with a Wacom tablet. (eg. The right-click palette is much more comfortable, its stroke smoothing option is easier to tune to work properly, and the brush engine is better.)



Look up the term "representative sample". I can just as easily argue that I've seen plenty of Windows users who claim to either be using Krita or have been using it until they decided to pirate a copy of Corel Painter or Paint Tool SAI for some advanced digital painting feature X or Y which GIMP doesn't even offer.



I burn DVDs for non-volatile backup. My mother burns DVDs so she can give people a 50¢ disc rather than bothering them to return a borrowed $8 USB stick.

NAND isn't at that price point yet and, NAND or rotating oxide, optical disks have the advantage over fixed storage that, if the drive electronics fail, you can easily swap them independent of the medium.

Also, we're Canadian. Canada has very high mobile data rates and most people outside cities have to rely on mobile data for Internet faster than dial-up. We have to interact with such people.



It's not the libs. It's the set of features exposed and the stability. Last I tried Brasero, I found it prone to crashing and bearing that distinctive GNOME scent of "You don't need those features because we say so."

(I say this as someone who has sometimes gone direct to writing my own scripts around GAFFitter, genisoimage, dvdisaster, and wodim, but still likes to use a GUI most of the time.)



It's possible Baobab has copied Filelight's caching since but, last I checked, its drill-down was so horrendously unusable on non-SSD devices that i'd teach my mother to use ncdu before I'd give her Baobab. Claim what you want, I know what I experienced.



No, I responded to "It is very rare that people use KDE applications outside of KDE Desktop." by giving examples of why that statement is suspect. If you can't recognize that there are values in between "very rare" and "vast majority", then you may be delusional.

There. I've had my "look at how wrong you are" moment and now I'm going to let you have the last word. I've got better things to do with my time than argue with someone who comes off as an actual fanboy.

Oh, and I mentioned that I was running LXDE with this stuff for a while... that's because I'll run whichever mixture of desktop components best meets my needs. I left KDE when the migration from KDE 3.5 to 4.x was a dumpster fire and came back years later when I needed to have panels all along the bottom edge of a desktop with monitors of different heights... something Plasma can do but LXPanel can't. I still run PCManFM instead of Dolphin for my file manager, Leafpad for when I don't feel something merits gVim, urxvt with a patched version of the "kuake" plugin instead of Yakuake, Geeqie instead of Gwenview, etc. etc. etc.

Again, a lot of blah blah blah blah. I am tired of this. You are presenting niche use cases as the norm. You are completely delusional. Who in their right mind runs LXDE with mainly KDE apps? Why use LXDE in the first place? In order to run KDE apps you need to run their libs too, and those are interconnected, KDE apps are NOT separate from the rest of the KDE desktop contrary to their claim. So you need a lightweight, barebones, desktop environment, but proceed to bring the KDE bloat to it anyway? Yeah right.... And even if there was not KDE bloat and KDE apps on LXDE were like "native" LXDE apps, even then there would be graphical consistency issues here....

And all this just to pretend KDE apps should be considered a "different thing" than the KDE desktop. All this because you need to call it "Plasma 5" instead of "KDE 5" because you have vanity issues....

[ssokolow]

Blah blah blah blah lots of BS here from a KDE fanboy....

That really should be a sign for me to just step back and let you be an object lesson in "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt," but it's cathartic to give in to that "Someone is wrong on the Internet!" urge every now and then.

Krita is great but your brother could use GIMP which is greater.

My brother used to use GIMP exclusively for years. When he finally discovered Krita, he switched to it because it's better for digital painting with a Wacom tablet. (eg. The right-click palette is much more comfortable, its stroke smoothing option is easier to tune to work properly, and the brush engine is better.)

People using Krita on Windows are an extreme niche, most people don't care about Krita, i have never met a single person in my life who used Krita on windows and you are the first one i met online...

Look up the term "representative sample". I can just as easily argue that I've seen plenty of Windows users who claim to either be using Krita or have been using it until they decided to pirate a copy of Corel Painter or Paint Tool SAI for some advanced digital painting feature X or Y which GIMP doesn't even offer.

K3b is a useless program since no one uses cds/dvds anymore in the age of NAND flash and extremely fast internet, both on land and on mobile.

I burn DVDs for non-volatile backup. My mother burns DVDs so she can give people a 50¢ disc rather than bothering them to return a borrowed $8 USB stick.

NAND isn't at that price point yet and, NAND or rotating oxide, optical disks have the advantage over fixed storage that, if the drive electronics fail, you can easily swap them independent of the medium.

Also, we're Canadian. Canada has very high mobile data rates and most people outside cities have to rely on mobile data for Internet faster than dial-up. We have to interact with such people.

Even then, K3b is just a front end for the same libs Brasero is using, so K3b is not essential and not many people need it, if you need to burn a cd, there is a ton of apps to do it.

It's not the libs. It's the set of features exposed and the stability. Last I tried Brasero, I found it prone to crashing and bearing that distinctive GNOME scent of "You don't need those features because we say so."

(I say this as someone who has sometimes gone direct to writing my own scripts around GAFFitter, genisoimage, dvdisaster, and wodim, but still likes to use a GUI most of the time.)

Filelight? Seriously, you are going to use THAT as an example? The vast majority of people don't need it and it is not that much better than competing solutions. Baobab is more than fine.

It's possible Baobab has copied Filelight's caching since but, last I checked, its drill-down was so horrendously unusable on non-SSD devices that i'd teach my mother to use ncdu before I'd give her Baobab. Claim what you want, I know what I experienced.

It goes on and one but the point is clear: You nitpick a few issues/apps and pretend that the vast majority of people use their Windows/Apple/GNOME/XFCE/etc with KDE apps.... You are delusional....

No, I responded to "It is very rare that people use KDE applications outside of KDE Desktop." by giving examples of why that statement is suspect. If you can't recognize that there are values in between "very rare" and "vast majority", then you may be delusional.

There. I've had my "look at how wrong you are" moment and now I'm going to let you have the last word. I've got better things to do with my time than argue with someone who comes off as an actual fanboy.

Oh, and I mentioned that I was running LXDE with this stuff for a while... that's because I'll run whichever mixture of desktop components best meets my needs. I left KDE when the migration from KDE 3.5 to 4.x was a dumpster fire and came back years later when I needed to have panels all along the bottom edge of a desktop with monitors of different heights... something Plasma can do but LXPanel can't. I still run PCManFM instead of Dolphin for my file manager, Leafpad for when I don't feel something merits gVim, urxvt with a patched version of the "kuake" plugin instead of Yakuake, Geeqie instead of Gwenview, etc. etc. etc.

[mikus]

Another comment - posting in KDE forums go nowhere. They talk, discuss, but nothing happens. They add new crap, leave the old broken and unfixable. I've tried posting to KDE dev forums, nvidia, kernel, others, all for not. Everyone just blames another dev team. They keep adding more function, but missing the fact their core is broken and sticking their head in the ground.

I'd start with a refactor of compositing. Not an easy topic - even windoze 10 doesn't do this well. I tried windows for a good month after being so disgusted with linux, I went back with all the same problems. It as better than windoze on my factory installed xps15 that my mouse lagged every time I moved it too fast, but didn't crash hard every few days.

Every time my thunderbolt dock randomly drops my connection, same with my desktop and displayport-to-hdmi adapters crash, it resizes all my windows to something absurd, as well as move them all to a (terrible) corer of my screen.

Windowing between multiple monitors again has been an issue since 4.0 and has not improved. Mate/cinnamon were better about this, but not perfect. Windoze wasn't either, so I get this is an industry problem, but so odd I feel like the only person to actually use linux daily and feel these issues. After 15 years, these aren't unique to hardware after many upgrades/replacements, so I consider them systemic failures in design/code.