MATE 1.24 Released For Letting GNOME 2 Continuation Live On In 2020

[xpander]

What is the point of mate when xfce exists ? Fragmenting resources for no good reason

MATE offers much more in some areas than XFCE. Panels for example have drag & drop support, better applet choice. Caja is much more feature rich than Thunar. Now XFCE has a bit better window manager though, but seems MATE might be ahead on that also with that latest release. I mean XFCE is good too, but they have differences. We have more choice. And Gnome3 Classic/Flasback or whatever its now named, doesn't even come close to the configuration options MATE offers

[starshipeleven]

Traditional Unix with a Linux kernel.

Void Linux and Project Trident (soon) are the closer to that.

Although "traditional Unix" can mean many things, from "completely bullshit conterintuitive garbage that should die in a fire" (many old historical Unixes were like that, ask someone about HP-UX for example) to FreeBSD to something like MacOS that has built A LOT on it and it's not really using most of the unix-derived stuff in the core system, so I'm just extrapolating the most likely meaning from what you usually talk about.

[skeevy420]

I totally agree with this. I think Redhat should fork. A large number of people have no interest in doing things there way. In some light this is giving rise to FreeBSD because there is no illusion they need to conform.

That's what's happening to me in the Linux world. Seems like everything that Red Hat/Fedora push for, everyone else just blindly accepts. The problem is that a lot of us just aren't happy with their direction and I feel that we've gone from a caravan marching onward to lemmings following the leader.

It just feels like Linux has standardized into Gnome+systemd and that everything else is a 2nd class citizen and it also seems like no distribution is willing or able to step up and take the lead from RHEL so nothing will change anytime soon. Debian is a follow the leader distribution these days. Ubuntu could but they have horrible management. SUSE is following Red Hat's lead and is shifting to Gnome. Manjaro and Arch don't have the support or manpower to make significant changes to the Linux ecosystem. Clear might as well not matter. Gentoo just is. Mandriva and all the other distributions are all basically under the same category as Arch and Manjaro -- ain't big enough to matter.

Linux can be very depressing if you don't care for the vision Red Hat is trying to push on us.

What I find funny and concerning is the distribution trying to standardize Linux via systemd and Gnome won't adhere to the damn XDG Freedesktop Standards. Think about the irony of that. It's essentially the distribution version of your drunk dad saying "Do what I say, not what I do".

As someone who did a FreeBSD install last week...and then a 2nd one later that day because I didn't read any documentation...and another to occur between today and Saturday because you live and learn...it was very refreshing and reminds me of old-school Linux. It's like if someone took all my favorite parts of Arch and got rid of all the crap that's been annoying me...and Steam

[starshipeleven]

It just feels like Linux has standardized into Gnome+systemd

This is partly true with systemd and NOT TRUE AT ALL for GNOME. I live a happy and fruitful life on KDE and I would also do the same on MATE or Cinnamon

Debian is a follow the leader distribution these days.

Debian never forged its own path, they are a consensus-based all-inclusive political behemoth focusing on stability.

Ubuntu could but they have horrible management.

Yes.

SUSE is following Red Hat's lead and is shifting to Gnome.

A GUI is a very secondary thing for the enterprise Linux offering anyway, they default on the same as RedHat, but others are supported and in a very good state (if compared to others like say ubuntu that consistenly fucks up KDE for example)

The whole picture is that the OpenSUSE community and paid developers are indeed sinking resources into KDE.

Mandriva and all the other distributions are all basically under the same category as Arch and Manjaro -- ain't big enough to matter. Gentoo just is.

I'm not sure this was any different in the past.

Linux via systemd and Gnome won't adhere to the damn XDG Freedesktop Standards. Think about the irony of that.

to what standards are you referring exactly ? https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/

Because if we are talking of stuff like "places where applications place their config" and such, it's always been a mess.

As someone who did a FreeBSD install last week...and then a 2nd one later that day because I didn't read any documentation...and another to occur between today and Saturday because you live and learn...it was very refreshing and reminds me of old-school Linux. It's like if someone took all my favorite parts of Arch and got rid of all the crap that's been annoying me...and Steam

And this, ladies and gentlemen is how a new BSD user is born. Did your neck feel more beard-y yet?

[torsionbar28]

A) The difference between a Linux system isn't the desktop it runs. wft lol That is just software you run, you can put KDE on Windows.
B) I'd like to see something more like Alpine, Gentoo or maybe Slackware. Different libc, different system layout, more standard unix configuration, openrc etc etc. Traditional Unix with a Linux kernel.

A) I never claimed it was, lol wft lgtbbq.
B) Sure, that makes sense, although can't you do this already with Gentoo? Sounds interesting, but most users care about how they interact with the system, and not so much about how it works under the hood. Not a huge fan of systemd myself, but I don't think I'd switch distros just to use openrc.

[skeevy420]

This is partly true with systemd and NOT TRUE AT ALL for GNOME. I live a happy and fruitful life on KDE and I would also do the same on MATE or Cinnamon

So do I, but that doesn't mean I don't see the general shift towards Gnome/GTK/systemd. It sucks because I've always wanted that level of integration in a system, but I do not like the way Gnome went.

Debian never forged its own path, they are a consensus-based all-inclusive political behemoth focusing on stability.

I mean how they used to be one of the big go-to's in regards to new users and Linux. It's where I cut my teeth first. It just seems that with Ubuntu, Mint, and other Debuntu based distributions that (try/attempt) to add safety to Debian Testing and Sid, why use them?

A GUI is a very secondary thing for the enterprise Linux offering anyway, they default on the same as RedHat, but others are supported and in a very good state (if compared to others like say ubuntu that consistenly fucks up KDE for example)

The whole picture is that the OpenSUSE community and paid developers are indeed sinking resources into KDE.

From the outside looking in, it just gives the impression that they, PaidSUSE and OpenSUSE, aren't very cohesive and makes one wonder if what works on one will work on the other. Clearly Plasma fixes won't work on Gnome and vise-a=versa.

When one buys into the whole Red Hat/Fedora ecosystem, they have the same basic experience, sets of programs, etc. One is clearly full of newer software than the other, but that's like comparing Windows LTSC and Windows 10 Home/Pro. Fedora might have their Spins, but they both offer the same Gnome experience by default and it's the only choice on a wide range of their products and services so it really gives an appearance of cohesion. If you're stuck with RHEL at work, you'll likely use Fedora at home.

SUSE and OpenSUSE just don't have that feel because, unlike the Hats, they don't have that unified, default desktop and experience across their products. Use SUSE at work and OpenSUSE is a "WTF is this" meme when you fire it up at home.

to what standards are you referring exactly ? https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/

Because if we are talking of stuff like "places where applications place their config" and such, it's always been a mess.

The whole SSD/CSD Wayland debacle and Gnome's CSD Initiative in general. That whole "since we plan on dropping Xorg and don't need to support XWayland and therefore don't need to support the SSD specs...oh and while we're at it let's push CSD on everyone since we're not supporting SSD anyways" attitude.

FWIW, I do enjoy the irony of it all -- how I've been talking about how going full Jobs on Linux could be nice and how I don't like the results when RHEL does it.

And this, ladies and gentlemen is how a new BSD user is born. Did your neck feel more beard-y yet?

Unfortunately, yeah, because I had to shave and I have some really sensitive neck skin. It's awful.

[brouhaha]

I suspect that the true reason is that the icons and launchers for the panel are programmed with Gtk, so Gnome Fallback needed them rewritten with Gtk3 (which makes sense), so if the original creator did not that job, then it makes sense that they didn't work. You can't mix Gtk2 and Gtk3.

That's fine as a technical explanation for why the features were missing, but then they couldn't accurately claim that the new software that omitted those features had the look and feel of the old software, since clearly it had neither.

[dragon321]

lulz

https://gitlab.gnome.org/World/Shell...37#note_677618

And this proves what? That was a bug which was solved?

I said "shouldn't" not "never". Bugs always can occur in any project, especially big.