Qt-Powered Lumina Desktop 1.6 Released For BSD/Linux Systems

[DanL]

Not at all. It is well known that KDE and Gnome are exceptionally bloated. Run your package manager query of choice on something like Xfce and you will see a much more sane number of dependencies is output.

Sure, KDE metapackages are generally going to pull more dependencies than xfce, but it also has more companion programs and features, so it's apples/oranges.
I'm not sure why you're making a big deal out of dependencies (unless you're starved for disk space). In fact, I'm not sure what your point is at all. KDE is a heavier and more featured desktop than xfce. That is not a secret or revelation. No one is disputing that. But your ranting about KDE being "unmaintainable" is 144Hz-style nonsense. Recent KDE5 is far better than KDE4 was.

That is not how you install plasma in a standard context... That will end up with just a mess (missing out most required packages).

Most people don't install KDE/Plasma. It is already installed for them. More savvy users will uninstall features they don't need, or prevent them from starting. Power users will start with a minimal install and only add what they need, if they are really concerned about resources.
When I built a minimal Plasma desktop on Debian, it was not a mess. It was missing some recommended packages that I had to track down for the features I wanted, but that was not difficult and it was my choice to install Plasma that way.

I'm not convinced that you have managed to install even the window manager!

You've got to be kidding, trolling, or ridiculously exaggerating...
Again, quit while you're behind.

[starshipeleven]

That is not how you install plasma in a standard context... That will end up with just a mess (missing out most required packages).

This is how OpenSUSE lets you install Plasma DE, which means the GUI ONLY, not the whole shebang of crap you might get on inferior OSes that force you to install the kitchen sink too.

I'm not convinced that you have managed to install even the window manager!

The plasma5-workspace dependency is pulling its own stuff, and among it there is kwin5, the window manager/compositor.

zypper info --requires plasma5-workspace
Loading repository data...
Reading installed packages...


Information for package plasma5-workspace:
------------------------------------------
Repository     : repo-oss                          
Name           : plasma5-workspace                
Version        : 5.17.5-2.2                        
Arch           : x86_64                            
Vendor         : openSUSE                          
Installed Size : 12.5 MiB                          
Installed      : Yes                              
Status         : up-to-date                        
Source package : plasma5-workspace-5.17.5-2.2.src  
Summary        : The KDE Plasma Workspace Components
Description    :                                  
    This package contains the basic packages for a Plasma workspace.
Requires       : [131]                            
    libstdc++.so.6()(64bit)
    libstdc++.so.6(GLIBCXX_3.4)(64bit)
    libstdc++.so.6(CXXABI_1.3)(64bit)
    libm.so.6()(64bit)
    libgcc_s.so.1()(64bit)
    libgcc_s.so.1(GCC_3.0)(64bit)
    libm.so.6(GLIBC_2.2.5)(64bit)
    libstdc++.so.6(GLIBCXX_3.4.21)(64bit)
    libgcc_s.so.1(GCC_3.3.1)(64bit)
    libstdc++.so.6(GLIBCXX_3.4.9)(64bit)
    libQt5Core.so.5()(64bit)
    libQt5Core.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
    libQt5Gui.so.5()(64bit)
    libQt5Gui.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
    libz.so.1()(64bit)
    libQt5Widgets.so.5()(64bit)
    libQt5Widgets.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
    libX11.so.6()(64bit)
    libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.15)(64bit)
    libstdc++.so.6(GLIBCXX_3.4.14)(64bit)
    libKF5CoreAddons.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5I18n.so.5()(64bit)
    libQt5Network.so.5()(64bit)
    libQt5Network.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
    libQt5DBus.so.5()(64bit)
    libQt5DBus.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
    libKF5ConfigCore.so.5()(64bit)
    libQt5Core.so.5(Qt_5.14)(64bit)
    libKF5WidgetsAddons.so.5()(64bit)
    libQt5Xml.so.5()(64bit)
    libQt5Xml.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
    libKF5ConfigWidgets.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5XmlGui.so.5()(64bit)
    libQt5Qml.so.5()(64bit)
    libQt5Qml.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
    libKF5ConfigGui.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5KIOWidgets.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5KIOCore.so.5()(64bit)
    libxcb.so.1()(64bit)
    libKF5Completion.so.5()(64bit)
    libQt5Quick.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5Crash.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5DBusAddons.so.5()(64bit)
    libQt5Quick.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
    libKF5IconThemes.so.5()(64bit)
    libQt5X11Extras.so.5()(64bit)
    libQt5X11Extras.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
    libKF5Service.so.5()(64bit)
    libQt5Sql.so.5()(64bit)
    libQt5Sql.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
    libKF5WindowSystem.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5Notifications.so.5()(64bit)
    kdelibs4support
    libKF5TextWidgets.so.5()(64bit)
    kinit
    libXrender.so.1()(64bit)
    libXfixes.so.3()(64bit)
    libKF5JobWidgets.so.5()(64bit)
    libSM.so.6()(64bit)
    libICE.so.6()(64bit)
    libKF5KIOFileWidgets.so.5()(64bit)
    kactivitymanagerd
    libKF5NewStuff.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5GuiAddons.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5Wallet.so.5()(64bit)
    libqt5-qtquickcontrols
    libphonon4qt5.so.4()(64bit)
    libKF5ItemModels.so.5()(64bit)
    awk
    libKF5NotifyConfig.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5GlobalAccel.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5Solid.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5Declarative.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5Bookmarks.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5Activities.so.5()(64bit)
    libxcb-randr.so.0()(64bit)
    libKF5Plasma.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5TextEditor.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5QuickAddons.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5KDELibs4Support.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5WaylandClient.so.5()(64bit)
    kded
    libKF5AuthCore.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5NetworkManagerQt.so.6()(64bit)
    libKF5Package.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5IdleTime.so.5()(64bit)
    xprop
    xrdb
    libKF5Baloo.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5Runner.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5Holidays.so.5()(64bit)
    xsetroot
    libkworkspace5.so.5()(64bit)
    libqt5-qdbus
    libqt5-qtpaths
    libKF5KIOGui.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5PlasmaQuick.so.5()(64bit)
    libAppStreamQt.so.2()(64bit)
    libKF5People.so.5()(64bit)
    libgps.so.25()(64bit)
    libqalculate.so.21()(64bit)
    solid-imports
    frameworkintegration-plugin
    libKF5ActivitiesStats.so.1()(64bit)
    libKF5CalendarEvents.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5PeopleWidgets.so.5()(64bit)
    libKF5Prison.so.5()(64bit)
    libprocesscore.so.7()(64bit)
    libprocessui.so.7()(64bit)
    libKScreenLocker.so.5()(64bit)
    libksgrd.so.7()(64bit)
    libnotificationmanager.so.1()(64bit)
    libtaskmanager.so.6()(64bit)
    libcolorcorrect.so.5()(64bit)
    libplasma-geolocation-interface.so.5()(64bit)
    libweather_ion.so.7()(64bit)
    plasma-framework >= 5.66.0
    plasma5-workspace-libs = 5.17.5-2.2
    libkscreen2-plugin >= 5.17
    plasma-framework-components >= 5.66.0
    breeze >= 5.17
    drkonqi5 >= 5.17
    gmenudbusmenuproxy >= 5.17
    kde-cli-tools5 >= 5.17
    kglobalaccel5 >= 5.17
    kscreen5 >= 5.17
    kscreenlocker >= 5.17
    kwin5 >= 5.17
    milou5 >= 5.17
    xembedsniproxy >= 5.17
    /sbin/ldconfig

Would you also not expect the KDE text editor to also be present as part of the DE?

No. KDE text editor is part of the KDE application bundle, which is a different thing from Plasma DE. The same applies to GNOME. Most of their application bundle is garbage on both sides (KDE and GNOME). I use Firefox and Thunderbird instead of the bundled browser and mail client, and I manually installed kwrite instead of the default and heavier editor kate

Of course OpenSUSE like most distros allows to select a "KDE Plasma desktop" profile on install (or later) and this selects a bunch of stuff, with Libreoffice, Firefox and KDE application bundle. But this isn't "Plasma DE" and most of the stuff in it is NOT a dependency of each other. It is a metapackage pulling down stuff to create a functional system just after installation.

Or are you trying to say that plasma isn't a desktop environment and in fact just a session manager?

WTF? The session manager is just the login screen.

DE means the base GUI parts: the session manager (login screen), the desktop shell (top/bottom/side bars and desktop) and a file manager, system settings for screen, themes and power and whatnot, that's it.

[kpedersen]

You've got to be kidding, trolling, or ridiculously exaggerating...

I'm not kidding. In the following list of dependencies provided earlier; can you point out where the actual WM binary is? I would expect something like kwin.

zypper info --requires plasma5-desktop

Information for package plasma5-desktop:
----------------------------------------
Repository : repo-oss
Name : plasma5-desktop
Version : 5.17.5-2.1
Arch : x86_64
Vendor : openSUSE
Installed Size : 12.8 MiB
Installed : Yes
Status : up-to-date
Source package : plasma5-desktop-5.17.5-2.1.src
Summary : The KDE Plasma Workspace Components
Description :
This package contains the basic packages for a Plasma workspace.
Requires : [117]
/bin/sh
libstdc++.so.6()(64bit)
libstdc++.so.6(GLIBCXX_3.4)(64bit)
libstdc++.so.6(CXXABI_1.3)(64bit)
libm.so.6()(64bit)
libgcc_s.so.1()(64bit)
libgcc_s.so.1(GCC_3.0)(64bit)
libm.so.6(GLIBC_2.2.5)(64bit)
libstdc++.so.6(GLIBCXX_3.4.21)(64bit)
libglib-2.0.so.0()(64bit)
libm.so.6(GLIBC_2.29)(64bit)
libgcc_s.so.1(GCC_3.3.1)(64bit)
libgobject-2.0.so.0()(64bit)
libstdc++.so.6(GLIBCXX_3.4.9)(64bit)
libQt5Core.so.5()(64bit)
libQt5Core.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
libstdc++.so.6(GLIBCXX_3.4.11)(64bit)
libQt5Gui.so.5()(64bit)
libQt5Gui.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
libQt5Core.so.5(Qt_5.13)(64bit)
libQt5Widgets.so.5()(64bit)
libQt5Widgets.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
libgio-2.0.so.0()(64bit)
libX11.so.6()(64bit)
libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.15)(64bit)
libKF5CoreAddons.so.5()(64bit)
libKF5I18n.so.5()(64bit)
libQt5Network.so.5()(64bit)
libQt5Network.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
libQt5DBus.so.5()(64bit)
libQt5DBus.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
libKF5ConfigCore.so.5()(64bit)
libKF5WidgetsAddons.so.5()(64bit)
libQt5Xml.so.5()(64bit)
libQt5Xml.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
libKF5ConfigWidgets.so.5()(64bit)
libKF5XmlGui.so.5()(64bit)
libQt5Qml.so.5()(64bit)
libQt5Qml.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
libKF5ConfigGui.so.5()(64bit)
libfreetype.so.6()(64bit)
libKF5KIOWidgets.so.5()(64bit)
libKF5KIOCore.so.5()(64bit)
libQt5PrintSupport.so.5()(64bit)
libQt5PrintSupport.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
libxcb.so.1()(64bit)
libKF5Completion.so.5()(64bit)
libQt5Quick.so.5()(64bit)
libKF5DBusAddons.so.5()(64bit)
libQt5Quick.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
libKF5IconThemes.so.5()(64bit)
libQt5X11Extras.so.5()(64bit)
libQt5X11Extras.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
libKF5Service.so.5()(64bit)
libQt5Svg.so.5()(64bit)
libQt5Svg.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
libfontconfig.so.1()(64bit)
libQt5Sql.so.5()(64bit)
libQt5Sql.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
libKF5WindowSystem.so.5()(64bit)
libKF5Notifications.so.5()(64bit)
libKF5Archive.so.5()(64bit)
libXi.so.6()(64bit)
libXfixes.so.3()(64bit)
libKF5Parts.so.5()(64bit)
libKF5JobWidgets.so.5()(64bit)
libKF5Codecs.so.5()(64bit)
libKF5ItemViews.so.5()(64bit)
libKF5KIOFileWidgets.so.5()(64bit)
libQt5QuickWidgets.so.5()(64bit)
libQt5QuickWidgets.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
libKF5NewStuff.so.5()(64bit)
libKF5GuiAddons.so.5()(64bit)
libXft.so.2()(64bit)
libKF5Wallet.so.5()(64bit)
libXcursor.so.1()(64bit)
libX11-xcb.so.1()(64bit)
libKF5KCMUtils.so.5()(64bit)
libphonon4qt5.so.4()(64bit)
libKF5ItemModels.so.5()(64bit)
libQt5Concurrent.so.5()(64bit)
libQt5Concurrent.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
kirigami2
libKF5NotifyConfig.so.5()(64bit)
libKF5GlobalAccel.so.5()(64bit)
libKF5Solid.so.5()(64bit)
libqt5-qtgraphicaleffects
libKF5Declarative.so.5()(64bit)
libKF5SonnetUi.so.5()(64bit)
libxkbfile.so.1()(64bit)
libKF5Activities.so.5()(64bit)
libKF5Plasma.so.5()(64bit)
libKF5QuickAddons.so.5()(64bit)
libibus-1.0.so.5()(64bit)
libKF5KDELibs4Support.so.5()(64bit)
libKF5AuthCore.so.5()(64bit)
libxcb-xkb.so.1()(64bit)
libKF5Package.so.5()(64bit)
libxcb-keysyms.so.1()(64bit)
libKF5Baloo.so.5()(64bit)
libKF5Runner.so.5()(64bit)
libxcb-image.so.0()(64bit)
libkworkspace5.so.5()(64bit)
kde-user-manager
kinfocenter5
kmenuedit5
ksysguard5
libKF5PlasmaQuick.so.5()(64bit)
libKF5Emoticons.so.5()(64bit)
kactivities5-imports
libKF5ActivitiesStats.so.1()(64bit)
libnotificationmanager.so.1()(64bit)
libtaskmanager.so.6()(64bit)
libxcb-record.so.0()(64bit)
plasma-framework-components >= 5.66.0
plasma5-workspace >= 5.17.5
/sbin/ldconfig

WTF? The session manager is just the login screen.

No, that's the display manager. Things like the dbus session manager are things that control IPC and things like that.

EDIT: Oh, the dependency list was updated (and is now longer).

[DanL]

I'm not kidding. In the following list of dependencies provided earlier; can you point out where the actual WM binary is? I would expect something like kwin.

As ss11 pointed out, it's a dependency of plasma5-workspace. Quit while you're behind.

[starshipeleven]

Just check out the sheer number of patches required to it to build / run on different platforms (even different distros).

Not really.

Also you can kind of see by the fact that it is impossible to get KDE 3 compiling on a modern platform.

What a surprise, it's EOL and unmaintained since 2008, just 12 years ago.

[starshipeleven]

No, that's the display manager. Things like the dbus session manager are things that control IPC and things like that.

It's the same thing, when you login you initiate a new "desktop session".
GDM for GNOME and SDDM for KDE.

EDIT: Oh, the dependency list was updated

That's the dependency list of plasma5-workspace, a dependent package of plasma5-desktop

(and is now longer).

There is still no trace of bullshit like CUPS and Samba and dmidecode and gstreamer though. Only KDE libs and DE components.

[bug77]

This is xfce4 (a middle-weight DE) for comparison

https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/ports.cgi?query=^xfce-4.14&stype=name

There are less than half the number of dependencies!

Plasma has too many components. There are too many things to break, leading to FOSS desktops being very fragile.

Following your train of thought, 2 100MB dependencies is lighter than 10 1MB ones.
Seriously dude, get a clue, you've been doing this for a while now...

[kpedersen]

Not really.
What a surprise, it's EOL and unmaintained since 2008, just 12 years ago.

That's not really an acceptable reason. Giving it terms like EOL doesn't make the software any less poorly developed in the first place. KDE 5 will be "EOL" one day because it too is badly engineered in terms of dependencies.

Following your train of thought, 2 100MB dependencies is lighter than 10 1MB ones.

You think the majority of KDE 5 dependencies are as small as 1MB? Hah!
Just the build system alone is a behemoth. I doubt we could even get that working 5 years from now.

[bug77]

You think the majority of KDE 5 dependencies are as small as 1MB? Hah!

No, but I think the size of a dependency is also important, a concept that has, once again, flown right over your head.

Just the build system alone is a behemoth. I doubt we could even get that working 5 years from now.

Bringing unrelated arguments, another civil discussion anti-pattern.

[starshipeleven]

That's not really an acceptable reason.

Try to compile XFCE 4.0 with modern system and dependencies and tell me how it goes.

Giving it terms like EOL doesn't make the software any less poorly developed in the first place.

Yeah, but it shows how your argument that "it can't be compiled, therefore it is poorly developed" is bullshit, so you don't have any argument, only "waah" "waah".