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  • #31
    Originally posted by Charlie68 View Post

    There is also Lxqt, if you want a very light QT DE.
    And LiquidShell if you want a very light Qt DE.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by kpedersen View Post

      I think that is kind of the problem. You are right that Xfce is lacking features but so is KDE/plasma. All at the same time, Windows XP's desktop environment ran in less than 50Megs ram and consumed half the disk space as plasma alone.

      This is honestly not me saying one DE is better than the other. I think they are all absolute trollop! I don't believe the open-source community is doing well here.

      Unfortunately, new users coming from Windows don't have a clue about the problem. At the same time I am getting a general feeling that Linux veterans are burying their head in the sand and just telling themselves "everything is fine".



      Just check out the sheer number of patches required to it to build / run on different platforms (even different distros). Also you can kind of see by the fact that it is impossible to get KDE 3 compiling on a modern platform. If you project this by 10 years, we can safely make the same assumption that KDE5 will also be impossible to get compiling on a (then) modern platform.
      Unless of course they start engineering in some preservation mechanisms into the code.
      Why would you want KDE 3 on a modern system when there is the far superior Trinity Desktop?

      Windows users should wait for Deepin v20 in March.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by kpedersen View Post

        That's not really an acceptable reason. Giving it terms like EOL doesn't make the software any less poorly developed in the first place. KDE 5 will be "EOL" one day because it too is badly engineered in terms of dependencies.
        You're absolutely right! Other OS's are much better at that. Show us how you easily got Windows 98 to boot on a modern-day computer (i.e. 2015 or newer).

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        • #34
          Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
          No, that's the display manager. Things like the dbus session manager are things that control IPC and things like that.
          On Plasma, the display manager IS the session manager.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
            This is how OpenSUSE lets you install Plasma DE, which means the GUI ONLY, not the whole shebang of crap you might get on inferior OSes that force you to install the kitchen sink too.

            The plasma5-workspace dependency is pulling its own stuff, and among it there is kwin5, the window manager/compositor.

            Code:
            zypper info --requires plasma5-workspace
            libX11.so.6()(64bit)
            libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.15)(64bit)
            awk
            No. KDE text editor is part of the KDE application bundle, which is a different thing from Plasma DE. The same applies to GNOME. Most of their application bundle is garbage on both sides (KDE and GNOME). I use Firefox and Thunderbird instead of the bundled browser and mail client, and I manually installed kwrite instead of the default and heavier editor kate

            Of course OpenSUSE like most distros allows to select a "KDE Plasma desktop" profile on install (or later) and this selects a bunch of stuff, with Libreoffice, Firefox and KDE application bundle. But this isn't "Plasma DE" and most of the stuff in it is NOT a dependency of each other. It is a metapackage pulling down stuff to create a functional system just after installation.

            WTF? The session manager is just the login screen.

            DE means the base GUI parts: the session manager (login screen), the desktop shell (top/bottom/side bars and desktop) and a file manager, system settings for screen, themes and power and whatnot, that's it.
            It needs awk, libc, AND x11. My goodness that's some unnecessary bloat to depend on .

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            • #36
              Gosh, is there a DE news without these fights? What's the point?

              I'm one of the developers of Porteus distro and I'm totally confident to say that KDE is anything but light compared to, let's say, Xfce. It's not a matter of opinion. Just to give you some numbers.

              Module size:
              KDE: 92 MB
              Xfce: 18 MB

              Memory consumption after boot:
              KDE: 410 MB
              Xfce: 253 MB

              I lost the last benchmark I did regarding boot time, file manager performance and some other things, but I remember Xfce was better in everything, and by a considerable margin.

              And regarding compiling and dependencies, KDE is waaaaay more complicated to build. It depends on heaps of libs and there are endless modules to build and set. It's a nightmare, really.

              But, hey, that's OK if you're a user and prefer KDE or whatever. Performance is not everything

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Vistaus View Post

                On Plasma, the display manager IS the session manager.
                No it isn't don't be silly. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to run plasma via i.e startx.

                But I guess you want as much bloat as possible don't you? So you obviously use a really heavy DM. I am thinking GDM to log into a KDE desktop. Then you can load two heavyweight GUI toolkits into ram

                Originally posted by Vistaus View Post

                You're absolutely right! Other OS's are much better at that. Show us how you easily got Windows 98 to boot on a modern-day computer (i.e. 2015 or newer).
                Was Windows XP not used as the example? Where did you pull Windows 98 from? Why not 3.1? They all offer more functionality than KDE 5
                And yes, even today I can find more 2015 hardware that officially supports XP than Linux. Hardware compatibility with Windows is not the issue though. Poor UI systems on FOSS platforms are the issue.

                Originally posted by fulalas View Post
                Gosh, is there a DE news without these fights? What's the point?

                But, hey, that's OK if you're a user and prefer KDE or whatever. Performance is not everything
                Honestly, these guys wouldn't know what performance or efficient workflow was if it whacked them in the butt.
                Last edited by kpedersen; 02-03-2020, 08:16 PM.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
                  But I guess you want as much bloat as possible don't you? So you obviously use a really heavy DM. I am thinking GDM to log into a KDE desktop. Then you can load two heavyweight GUI toolkits into ram
                  You are ridiculous.

                  Was Windows XP not used as the example?
                  WinXP is a giant magnet for piracy, backdoors, viruses, etc. Do you really have something against robust code? Are you still running WinXP?

                  Honestly, these guys wouldn't know what performance or efficient workflow was if it whacked them in the butt.
                  You wouldn't know logic or a good argument if they crawled up your butt. You should have quit while you were behind.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by kpedersen View Post

                    No it isn't don't be silly. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to run plasma via i.e startx.

                    But I guess you want as much bloat as possible don't you? So you obviously use a really heavy DM. I am thinking GDM to log into a KDE desktop. Then you can load two heavyweight GUI toolkits into ram



                    Was Windows XP not used as the example? Where did you pull Windows 98 from? Why not 3.1? They all offer more functionality than KDE 5
                    And yes, even today I can find more 2015 hardware that officially supports XP than Linux. Hardware compatibility with Windows is not the issue though. Poor UI systems on FOSS platforms are the issue.



                    Honestly, these guys wouldn't know what performance or efficient workflow was if it whacked them in the butt.
                    Xfeces has pretty terrible performance, very high input lag and lack of vsync. Uses more ram than KDE (thanks to gtk3) and looks like shit with no features. Furthermore you cannot install xfces 4.0 on a modern computer therefore it sucks and is unmaintainable by your logic. Furthermore I highly doubt you use your computer to get any work done, instead spend all your time to tweak xfeces to not look like crap.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by 240Hz View Post

                      Xfeces has pretty terrible performance, very high input lag and lack of vsync. Uses more ram than KDE (thanks to gtk3) and looks like shit with no features. Furthermore you cannot install xfces 4.0 on a modern computer therefore it sucks and is unmaintainable by your logic.
                      You are exactly right. Xfce is also a bloated piece of junk. As I said before, FOSS is not doing well when it comes to desktop environments. They are all exceptionally fragile and bloated.

                      Comment

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