Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Qt-Powered Lumina Desktop 1.6 Released For BSD/Linux Systems

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
    Not at all. It is well known that KDE and Gnome are exceptionally bloated. Run your package manager query of choice on something like Xfce and you will see a much more sane number of dependencies is output.
    Sure, KDE metapackages are generally going to pull more dependencies than xfce, but it also has more companion programs and features, so it's apples/oranges.
    I'm not sure why you're making a big deal out of dependencies (unless you're starved for disk space). In fact, I'm not sure what your point is at all. KDE is a heavier and more featured desktop than xfce. That is not a secret or revelation. No one is disputing that. But your ranting about KDE being "unmaintainable" is 144Hz-style nonsense. Recent KDE5 is far better than KDE4 was.

    That is not how you install plasma in a standard context... That will end up with just a mess (missing out most required packages).
    Most people don't install KDE/Plasma. It is already installed for them. More savvy users will uninstall features they don't need, or prevent them from starting. Power users will start with a minimal install and only add what they need, if they are really concerned about resources.
    When I built a minimal Plasma desktop on Debian, it was not a mess. It was missing some recommended packages that I had to track down for the features I wanted, but that was not difficult and it was my choice to install Plasma that way.

    I'm not convinced that you have managed to install even the window manager!
    You've got to be kidding, trolling, or ridiculously exaggerating...
    Again, quit while you're behind.

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
      That is not how you install plasma in a standard context... That will end up with just a mess (missing out most required packages).
      This is how OpenSUSE lets you install Plasma DE, which means the GUI ONLY, not the whole shebang of crap you might get on inferior OSes that force you to install the kitchen sink too.

      I'm not convinced that you have managed to install even the window manager!
      The plasma5-workspace dependency is pulling its own stuff, and among it there is kwin5, the window manager/compositor.

      Code:
      zypper info --requires plasma5-workspace
      Loading repository data...
      Reading installed packages...
      
      
      Information for package plasma5-workspace:
      ------------------------------------------
      Repository     : repo-oss                          
      Name           : plasma5-workspace                
      Version        : 5.17.5-2.2                        
      Arch           : x86_64                            
      Vendor         : openSUSE                          
      Installed Size : 12.5 MiB                          
      Installed      : Yes                              
      Status         : up-to-date                        
      Source package : plasma5-workspace-5.17.5-2.2.src  
      Summary        : The KDE Plasma Workspace Components
      Description    :                                  
          This package contains the basic packages for a Plasma workspace.
      Requires       : [131]                            
          libstdc++.so.6()(64bit)
          libstdc++.so.6(GLIBCXX_3.4)(64bit)
          libstdc++.so.6(CXXABI_1.3)(64bit)
          libm.so.6()(64bit)
          libgcc_s.so.1()(64bit)
          libgcc_s.so.1(GCC_3.0)(64bit)
          libm.so.6(GLIBC_2.2.5)(64bit)
          libstdc++.so.6(GLIBCXX_3.4.21)(64bit)
          libgcc_s.so.1(GCC_3.3.1)(64bit)
          libstdc++.so.6(GLIBCXX_3.4.9)(64bit)
          libQt5Core.so.5()(64bit)
          libQt5Core.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
          libQt5Gui.so.5()(64bit)
          libQt5Gui.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
          libz.so.1()(64bit)
          libQt5Widgets.so.5()(64bit)
          libQt5Widgets.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
          libX11.so.6()(64bit)
          libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.15)(64bit)
          libstdc++.so.6(GLIBCXX_3.4.14)(64bit)
          libKF5CoreAddons.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5I18n.so.5()(64bit)
          libQt5Network.so.5()(64bit)
          libQt5Network.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
          libQt5DBus.so.5()(64bit)
          libQt5DBus.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
          libKF5ConfigCore.so.5()(64bit)
          libQt5Core.so.5(Qt_5.14)(64bit)
          libKF5WidgetsAddons.so.5()(64bit)
          libQt5Xml.so.5()(64bit)
          libQt5Xml.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
          libKF5ConfigWidgets.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5XmlGui.so.5()(64bit)
          libQt5Qml.so.5()(64bit)
          libQt5Qml.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
          libKF5ConfigGui.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5KIOWidgets.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5KIOCore.so.5()(64bit)
          libxcb.so.1()(64bit)
          libKF5Completion.so.5()(64bit)
          libQt5Quick.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5Crash.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5DBusAddons.so.5()(64bit)
          libQt5Quick.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
          libKF5IconThemes.so.5()(64bit)
          libQt5X11Extras.so.5()(64bit)
          libQt5X11Extras.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
          libKF5Service.so.5()(64bit)
          libQt5Sql.so.5()(64bit)
          libQt5Sql.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
          libKF5WindowSystem.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5Notifications.so.5()(64bit)
          kdelibs4support
          libKF5TextWidgets.so.5()(64bit)
          kinit
          libXrender.so.1()(64bit)
          libXfixes.so.3()(64bit)
          libKF5JobWidgets.so.5()(64bit)
          libSM.so.6()(64bit)
          libICE.so.6()(64bit)
          libKF5KIOFileWidgets.so.5()(64bit)
          kactivitymanagerd
          libKF5NewStuff.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5GuiAddons.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5Wallet.so.5()(64bit)
          libqt5-qtquickcontrols
          libphonon4qt5.so.4()(64bit)
          libKF5ItemModels.so.5()(64bit)
          awk
          libKF5NotifyConfig.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5GlobalAccel.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5Solid.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5Declarative.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5Bookmarks.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5Activities.so.5()(64bit)
          libxcb-randr.so.0()(64bit)
          libKF5Plasma.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5TextEditor.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5QuickAddons.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5KDELibs4Support.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5WaylandClient.so.5()(64bit)
          kded
          libKF5AuthCore.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5NetworkManagerQt.so.6()(64bit)
          libKF5Package.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5IdleTime.so.5()(64bit)
          xprop
          xrdb
          libKF5Baloo.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5Runner.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5Holidays.so.5()(64bit)
          xsetroot
          libkworkspace5.so.5()(64bit)
          libqt5-qdbus
          libqt5-qtpaths
          libKF5KIOGui.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5PlasmaQuick.so.5()(64bit)
          libAppStreamQt.so.2()(64bit)
          libKF5People.so.5()(64bit)
          libgps.so.25()(64bit)
          libqalculate.so.21()(64bit)
          solid-imports
          frameworkintegration-plugin
          libKF5ActivitiesStats.so.1()(64bit)
          libKF5CalendarEvents.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5PeopleWidgets.so.5()(64bit)
          libKF5Prison.so.5()(64bit)
          libprocesscore.so.7()(64bit)
          libprocessui.so.7()(64bit)
          libKScreenLocker.so.5()(64bit)
          libksgrd.so.7()(64bit)
          libnotificationmanager.so.1()(64bit)
          libtaskmanager.so.6()(64bit)
          libcolorcorrect.so.5()(64bit)
          libplasma-geolocation-interface.so.5()(64bit)
          libweather_ion.so.7()(64bit)
          plasma-framework >= 5.66.0
          plasma5-workspace-libs = 5.17.5-2.2
          libkscreen2-plugin >= 5.17
          plasma-framework-components >= 5.66.0
          breeze >= 5.17
          drkonqi5 >= 5.17
          gmenudbusmenuproxy >= 5.17
          kde-cli-tools5 >= 5.17
          kglobalaccel5 >= 5.17
          kscreen5 >= 5.17
          kscreenlocker >= 5.17
          kwin5 >= 5.17
          milou5 >= 5.17
          xembedsniproxy >= 5.17
          /sbin/ldconfig
      Would you also not expect the KDE text editor to also be present as part of the DE?
      No. KDE text editor is part of the KDE application bundle, which is a different thing from Plasma DE. The same applies to GNOME. Most of their application bundle is garbage on both sides (KDE and GNOME). I use Firefox and Thunderbird instead of the bundled browser and mail client, and I manually installed kwrite instead of the default and heavier editor kate

      Of course OpenSUSE like most distros allows to select a "KDE Plasma desktop" profile on install (or later) and this selects a bunch of stuff, with Libreoffice, Firefox and KDE application bundle. But this isn't "Plasma DE" and most of the stuff in it is NOT a dependency of each other. It is a metapackage pulling down stuff to create a functional system just after installation.

      Or are you trying to say that plasma isn't a desktop environment and in fact just a session manager?
      WTF? The session manager is just the login screen.

      DE means the base GUI parts: the session manager (login screen), the desktop shell (top/bottom/side bars and desktop) and a file manager, system settings for screen, themes and power and whatnot, that's it.
      Last edited by starshipeleven; 02-03-2020, 10:57 AM.

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by DanL View Post
        You've got to be kidding, trolling, or ridiculously exaggerating...
        I'm not kidding. In the following list of dependencies provided earlier; can you point out where the actual WM binary is? I would expect something like kwin.

        Code:
        zypper info --requires plasma5-desktop
        
        Information for package plasma5-desktop:
        ----------------------------------------
        Repository : repo-oss
        Name : plasma5-desktop
        Version : 5.17.5-2.1
        Arch : x86_64
        Vendor : openSUSE
        Installed Size : 12.8 MiB
        Installed : Yes
        Status : up-to-date
        Source package : plasma5-desktop-5.17.5-2.1.src
        Summary : The KDE Plasma Workspace Components
        Description :
        This package contains the basic packages for a Plasma workspace.
        Requires : [117]
        /bin/sh
        libstdc++.so.6()(64bit)
        libstdc++.so.6(GLIBCXX_3.4)(64bit)
        libstdc++.so.6(CXXABI_1.3)(64bit)
        libm.so.6()(64bit)
        libgcc_s.so.1()(64bit)
        libgcc_s.so.1(GCC_3.0)(64bit)
        libm.so.6(GLIBC_2.2.5)(64bit)
        libstdc++.so.6(GLIBCXX_3.4.21)(64bit)
        libglib-2.0.so.0()(64bit)
        libm.so.6(GLIBC_2.29)(64bit)
        libgcc_s.so.1(GCC_3.3.1)(64bit)
        libgobject-2.0.so.0()(64bit)
        libstdc++.so.6(GLIBCXX_3.4.9)(64bit)
        libQt5Core.so.5()(64bit)
        libQt5Core.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
        libstdc++.so.6(GLIBCXX_3.4.11)(64bit)
        libQt5Gui.so.5()(64bit)
        libQt5Gui.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
        libQt5Core.so.5(Qt_5.13)(64bit)
        libQt5Widgets.so.5()(64bit)
        libQt5Widgets.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
        libgio-2.0.so.0()(64bit)
        libX11.so.6()(64bit)
        libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.15)(64bit)
        libKF5CoreAddons.so.5()(64bit)
        libKF5I18n.so.5()(64bit)
        libQt5Network.so.5()(64bit)
        libQt5Network.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
        libQt5DBus.so.5()(64bit)
        libQt5DBus.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
        libKF5ConfigCore.so.5()(64bit)
        libKF5WidgetsAddons.so.5()(64bit)
        libQt5Xml.so.5()(64bit)
        libQt5Xml.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
        libKF5ConfigWidgets.so.5()(64bit)
        libKF5XmlGui.so.5()(64bit)
        libQt5Qml.so.5()(64bit)
        libQt5Qml.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
        libKF5ConfigGui.so.5()(64bit)
        libfreetype.so.6()(64bit)
        libKF5KIOWidgets.so.5()(64bit)
        libKF5KIOCore.so.5()(64bit)
        libQt5PrintSupport.so.5()(64bit)
        libQt5PrintSupport.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
        libxcb.so.1()(64bit)
        libKF5Completion.so.5()(64bit)
        libQt5Quick.so.5()(64bit)
        libKF5DBusAddons.so.5()(64bit)
        libQt5Quick.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
        libKF5IconThemes.so.5()(64bit)
        libQt5X11Extras.so.5()(64bit)
        libQt5X11Extras.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
        libKF5Service.so.5()(64bit)
        libQt5Svg.so.5()(64bit)
        libQt5Svg.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
        libfontconfig.so.1()(64bit)
        libQt5Sql.so.5()(64bit)
        libQt5Sql.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
        libKF5WindowSystem.so.5()(64bit)
        libKF5Notifications.so.5()(64bit)
        libKF5Archive.so.5()(64bit)
        libXi.so.6()(64bit)
        libXfixes.so.3()(64bit)
        libKF5Parts.so.5()(64bit)
        libKF5JobWidgets.so.5()(64bit)
        libKF5Codecs.so.5()(64bit)
        libKF5ItemViews.so.5()(64bit)
        libKF5KIOFileWidgets.so.5()(64bit)
        libQt5QuickWidgets.so.5()(64bit)
        libQt5QuickWidgets.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
        libKF5NewStuff.so.5()(64bit)
        libKF5GuiAddons.so.5()(64bit)
        libXft.so.2()(64bit)
        libKF5Wallet.so.5()(64bit)
        libXcursor.so.1()(64bit)
        libX11-xcb.so.1()(64bit)
        libKF5KCMUtils.so.5()(64bit)
        libphonon4qt5.so.4()(64bit)
        libKF5ItemModels.so.5()(64bit)
        libQt5Concurrent.so.5()(64bit)
        libQt5Concurrent.so.5(Qt_5)(64bit)
        kirigami2
        libKF5NotifyConfig.so.5()(64bit)
        libKF5GlobalAccel.so.5()(64bit)
        libKF5Solid.so.5()(64bit)
        libqt5-qtgraphicaleffects
        libKF5Declarative.so.5()(64bit)
        libKF5SonnetUi.so.5()(64bit)
        libxkbfile.so.1()(64bit)
        libKF5Activities.so.5()(64bit)
        libKF5Plasma.so.5()(64bit)
        libKF5QuickAddons.so.5()(64bit)
        libibus-1.0.so.5()(64bit)
        libKF5KDELibs4Support.so.5()(64bit)
        libKF5AuthCore.so.5()(64bit)
        libxcb-xkb.so.1()(64bit)
        libKF5Package.so.5()(64bit)
        libxcb-keysyms.so.1()(64bit)
        libKF5Baloo.so.5()(64bit)
        libKF5Runner.so.5()(64bit)
        libxcb-image.so.0()(64bit)
        libkworkspace5.so.5()(64bit)
        kde-user-manager
        kinfocenter5
        kmenuedit5
        ksysguard5
        libKF5PlasmaQuick.so.5()(64bit)
        libKF5Emoticons.so.5()(64bit)
        kactivities5-imports
        libKF5ActivitiesStats.so.1()(64bit)
        libnotificationmanager.so.1()(64bit)
        libtaskmanager.so.6()(64bit)
        libxcb-record.so.0()(64bit)
        plasma-framework-components >= 5.66.0
        plasma5-workspace >= 5.17.5
        /sbin/ldconfig
        Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
        WTF? The session manager is just the login screen.
        No, that's the display manager. Things like the dbus session manager are things that control IPC and things like that.

        EDIT: Oh, the dependency list was updated (and is now longer).
        Last edited by kpedersen; 02-03-2020, 10:58 AM.

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
          I'm not kidding. In the following list of dependencies provided earlier; can you point out where the actual WM binary is? I would expect something like kwin.
          As ss11 pointed out, it's a dependency of plasma5-workspace. Quit while you're behind.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
            Just check out the sheer number of patches required to it to build / run on different platforms (even different distros).
            Not really.
            Also you can kind of see by the fact that it is impossible to get KDE 3 compiling on a modern platform.
            What a surprise, it's EOL and unmaintained since 2008, just 12 years ago.

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
              No, that's the display manager. Things like the dbus session manager are things that control IPC and things like that.
              It's the same thing, when you login you initiate a new "desktop session".
              GDM for GNOME and SDDM for KDE.

              EDIT: Oh, the dependency list was updated
              That's the dependency list of plasma5-workspace, a dependent package of plasma5-desktop
              (and is now longer).
              There is still no trace of bullshit like CUPS and Samba and dmidecode and gstreamer though. Only KDE libs and DE components.
              Last edited by starshipeleven; 02-03-2020, 11:15 AM.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
                This is xfce4 (a middle-weight DE) for comparison

                https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/ports.cgi?query=^xfce-4.14&stype=name

                There are less than half the number of dependencies!

                Plasma has too many components. There are too many things to break, leading to FOSS desktops being very fragile.
                Following your train of thought, 2 100MB dependencies is lighter than 10 1MB ones.
                Seriously dude, get a clue, you've been doing this for a while now...

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                  Not really.
                  What a surprise, it's EOL and unmaintained since 2008, just 12 years ago.
                  That's not really an acceptable reason. Giving it terms like EOL doesn't make the software any less poorly developed in the first place. KDE 5 will be "EOL" one day because it too is badly engineered in terms of dependencies.

                  Originally posted by bug77 View Post

                  Following your train of thought, 2 100MB dependencies is lighter than 10 1MB ones.
                  You think the majority of KDE 5 dependencies are as small as 1MB? Hah!
                  Just the build system alone is a behemoth. I doubt we could even get that working 5 years from now.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
                    You think the majority of KDE 5 dependencies are as small as 1MB? Hah!
                    No, but I think the size of a dependency is also important, a concept that has, once again, flown right over your head.
                    Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
                    Just the build system alone is a behemoth. I doubt we could even get that working 5 years from now.
                    Bringing unrelated arguments, another civil discussion anti-pattern.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
                      That's not really an acceptable reason.
                      Try to compile XFCE 4.0 with modern system and dependencies and tell me how it goes.

                      Giving it terms like EOL doesn't make the software any less poorly developed in the first place.
                      Yeah, but it shows how your argument that "it can't be compiled, therefore it is poorly developed" is bullshit, so you don't have any argument, only "waah" "waah".

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X