Wine 5.0 Released With Big Improvements For Gaming, Countless Application Fixes

[gukin]

It's been quite a year since 4.0 and 5.0, DXVK was barely getting started, playing prey2017 was just kinda working we still had to fool with Gallium 9 and now . . . WOW. Standalone Gallium 9, dx9 in DXVK , wine doing a credible job with dx10 and dx11 without DXVK. Oh and then there's proton. It has been an absolutely wonderful year for wine and Linux so huge kudos to Philip R., the whole wine team, the boffins at AMD who keep getting the OpenGL stuff up to snuff and everyone involved who help me waste time playing silly games and enjoying myself. Thanks to all, you've all done a wonderful job.

[PCJohn]

Hm, I would like Visual Studio to be ported to Wine :-) .

I prefer open-source tools, including Visual Studio Code. But sometimes I have to use Visual Studio for C++ development. It is a sad moment because I had to reboot to Windows.... ;-) .

[starshipeleven]

It'll never happen. Never ever. Wayland is broken by design and can't handle the Windows GUI model.
https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42284#c1

No wait, you're telling me that Linux's graphic backend has been designed without caring in the slightest about Windows's GUI architecture.

I'm shocked, shocked, I'll tell you.

[starshipeleven]

Not breaking applications should be the main goal of every API. And because most people don't care about that is why Linux userland is such a fucking mess when it comes to backwards compatibility.

You are confusing how distros compile and arrange stuff with actual API changes.

[jacob]

There is no such thing as an XWayland performance penalty.

No, but there is a X11 performance penalty, including on XWayland.

[starshipeleven]

Windows Anti-cheat support would be a killer feature.

This is completely impossible as any half-decent anti-cheat will have to validate graphics libraries to make sure someone is not using hacked ones to see through walls and stuff, while Wine places its compatibility layers there.

It would require to sign the wine layers and have the anti-cheat check that they are not tampered.

[ZeroPointEnergy]

You are confusing how distros compile and arrange stuff with actual API changes.

I'm interested in what you mean by that. Can you give some examples. I was mainly thinking about backwards incompatible changes to glibc etc that break old proprietary Linux games. I find the mindset the person I quoted is the main issue why the Linux userland is such an unstable mess. I can play win32 games from 20 years ago just fine with wine, but a Linux native game will no longer run.

[starshipeleven]

I'm interested in what you mean by that. Can you give some examples. I was mainly thinking about backwards incompatible changes to glibc etc that break old proprietary Linux games. I find the mindset the person I quoted is the main issue why the Linux userland is such an unstable mess. I can play win32 games from 20 years ago just fine with wine, but a Linux native game will no longer run.

Most people that claim "Linux userland is such an unstable mess" aren't usually talking of being unable to run 20 year old applications because of (very rare) glibc or library API changes, they usually mean "I cannot run old package from 2006 in 2020 distro", usually adding outlandish claims about fabled Windows retrocompatibility.

After the clarification I still don't understand your current "unstable mess" claim when your comparison is not another OS but a dedicated "emulator-like" system that wraps and hacks around the application and remaps stuff around to keep it working while the world changes around it.

It's like saying Windows is an "unstable mess" because it can't run DOS applications from 20 years ago that "work just fine in DOSBox".

I mean, ok I agree with you that it would be great if applications didn't break after 5-10 years as the OS is updated, but this is not a Linux-specific problem, pretty much all OSes of its era have the same issue.

[oiaohm]

No, but there is a X11 performance penalty, including on XWayland.

Really LOL. X.org running on a bare metal with a composer due to the double trip problem has 1 frag behind latency. XWayland does not have this.

https://www.secjuice.com/wayland-vs-xorg/

This graphics here don't include Xwayland.
Xclient -> Xwayland -> wayland compositor Notice none of the back tracking. That Xwayland is a straight pass-though not doing anything major-ally complex it adds bugger all over head. Full screen applications such as games basically zero extra overhead because opengl/wayland basically by design is bipassing both wayland and x11 server.

XWayland overhead is insanely small in fact it smaller than your normal desktop x.org overhead. Now if we could get Nvidia drivers to work with it everything would good. Only real problem XWayland has is being thrown back to software rendering due to lack of compatible driver..

I'm interested in what you mean by that. Can you give some examples. I was mainly thinking about backwards incompatible changes to glibc etc that break old proprietary Linux games. I find the mindset the person I quoted is the main issue why the Linux userland is such an unstable mess. I can play win32 games from 20 years ago just fine with wine, but a Linux native game will no longer run.

http://www.improbability.net/loki/

I really do have to question this. When 30 year old Linux games can still be made run on current Linux distributions using a work around that is coming up on 10 years old. 20 year old games under Windows 10 without doing work around don't work either. Wine is kind of a special case of maintaining work arounds so that 20 year old games still work. yes people have ported parts of Wine to windows to make 20 year old games work.

If you look inside valve Steam you will find a collection of 20+ year old Linux native game binaries shipped with compatibility bundle. So it about time you stop pushing this point that you cannot run old programs on Linux its simply not true. The true arguement is Linux distributions don't make it easy. Third parties like Valve are making it insanely easy to run 20-30 year old native game binaries under LInux.

The concept that 20 year old Linux games don't run on current distributions is not true because if it was Valve with steam would not be able to-do it. Reality you can play older linux native games on Linux than what win32 games will run on current day Windows 10.

Now if you are complaining that you have to set up a compatibility parts so they do and setting up those compatibility parts can be a true pain in the ass this is true.

[ZeroPointEnergy]

I mean, ok I agree with you that it would be great if applications didn't break after 5-10 years as the OS is updated, but this is not a Linux-specific problem, pretty much all OSes of its era have the same issue.

It actually isn't a problem when it comes to the kernel, because they acknowledge their role of being there for the user to run software so they have the rule to not break userland. So it is possible to do it, but that is not what we see with other libs and the issue in my opinion is the mindset of people like the one I quoted.