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Wine 5.0 Released With Big Improvements For Gaming, Countless Application Fixes

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  • #41
    Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
    20 year old games under Windows 10 without doing work around don't work either.
    Actually they do, unless they abuse low level hacks and undocumented APIs/structures. 20 years old is only 2000s, I can run games made even in 1998 just fine.

    Stop your bs.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
      Problem here is windows in fact breaks libraries sometimes for security you don't have a choice.
      No, it doesn't.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by Weasel View Post
        I can run games made even in 1998 just fine.
        [citation needed]

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        • #44
          Originally posted by Weasel View Post
          Actually they do, unless they abuse low level hacks and undocumented APIs/structures. 20 years old is only 2000s, I can run games made even in 1998 just fine.
          https://windowsreport.com/old-games-windows-8/

          Maybe you got lucky. Most people who try a 1998 game that is truly from 1998 will find it will not work on Windows 10 most of the time. 20 year old is only 2000 but the reality is it does not go back that far.

          You run into issues with windows 7 games on windows 10.

          Originally posted by Weasel View Post
          No, it doesn't.
          Problem here is windows in fact breaks libraries sometimes for security you don't have a choice. Please note this is in fact noted in the wine test suite where for windows 9x operating systems wine checks for different responses from libraries and call it green. Same for windows 2000, XP, 7 and 8.1. Of course these differences means games don't work.

          Reality Weasel is not just me who have found that to run old games on new windows that lot of times you need a bundled run-time to fix over issues or use the old version of Windows.

          Please note the good old games and steam are putting compatibility layers on old games on Windows. Yet you suggest that idea to run old games on Linux and people are like no that not right.

          The arguement that you have unlimited backwards compatibility on Windows is bogus. Steam and good old games would not have to be working around it if this was not the case.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by aufkrawall View Post
            That is not true either, unless you are referring to zero copy presentation inside compositor (which doesn't matter with pretty much even the worst modern dGPU imaginable).
            It is absolutely true, for more reasons than even the developers of Wayland realize. Simply put: XWayland use Xorg libs and not Wayland libs.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by ZeroPointEnergy View Post
              They have to do it by running it in a containers or runtime and not by running it natively on the libs of your system that benefit from performance improvements and security fixes. This approach is a complete mess and comes with a lot of other issues just because the ACTUAL issue, breaking APIs of the libs that form the userland is not addressed.

              Those are not solutions. Those are cheap ass band aids.
              There is absolutely nothing wrong with containerization. In addition to providing near guaranteed compatibility, containerization also provides the very best way of securing a device.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by treba View Post

                That's not quite true. XWayland does not run on plain Wayland compositors but needs extra features to get implemented by them. Wine could not just copy what XWayland does. Concerning the overhead: the fun part here is that XWayland in theory (and increasingly in practice) is faster than plain Xorg as it can make use of certain features not available in X (but in some Wayland compositors). Using hardware planes is such an example.



                About the first part: that's a problem with the NVIDIA proprietary. The ball is on NVIDIA here (either to adopt what the other drivers are doing or proposing a better mechanism that then gets adopted by everyone). For other drivers things work just fine (better performance than on Xorg, as written above).

                About the second: if you use Linux just to run Windows applications through Wine, then yes But I think that already exists, it's called ReactOS. Maybe that's for you then. Linux users are better of with a proper protocol, which is Wayland.
                It is not NVIDIA's job to cater to the open source community. NVIDIA is also not the only GPU vendor affected by Wayland's choice.

                If Wayland wants to hurt their own adoption as well as overall Linux adoption, they can keep on travelling down that road.

                You also overestimate XWayland. Yes, changes/optimizations have been made, but in the end, it is still X11, and subject to all the strengths and limitations.

                Another person mentioned Wayland is better, that is an opinionated argument. Based on my knowledge as an informed developer, security expert, and end user, I can say with confidence that Wayland has many flaws.

                Finally, someone mentioned ReactOS. ReactOS has been developed since the 90s, and still isn't usable in a production environment.

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                  [citation needed]
                  I imagine games like Civ 2 or Sim City 2000 still work fine. I have a few dozen games on CD designed specifically for win9x that work fine on both Windows 7 and Wine. I have not tested them on Windows 10, but chances are good they will work. The issue on Windows is that hardware has gotten insanely fast, so games run insanely fast as well.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by r08z View Post
                    The day I can run Photoshop 21.0.2 or any future recent versions on Wine without issues is the day I will say: "Wow Wine has come a long way in improvement."
                    Well Wine can already run the latest Photoshop CC but not perfectly. I imagine it running perfectly inside a Windows guest in VMware Player or Virtualbox, though.

                    Nonetheless, I feel for even pro graphic designers, GIMP with the large collection of 3rd party plugins provide a good enough alternative. There is also the PhotoFlow app if you need to do non-destructive image editing and use adjustment layers.

                    https://beebom.com/best-gimp-plugins/

                    https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/?...0&do_Search=Go

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by betam4x View Post
                      It is not NVIDIA's job to cater to the open source community.
                      Errr - who else's then? The OS community can't create a proper drivers for NVIDIA GPUs, that has been made impossible by them. So as the only provider of a decent driver, they are in charge to make it work.

                      Originally posted by betam4x View Post
                      NVIDIA is also not the only GPU vendor affected by Wayland's choice.
                      Who else? All the mesa drivers seem to be in good shape....who else has a proprietary driver and struggles with Wayland support?

                      Originally posted by betam4x View Post
                      If Wayland wants to hurt their own adoption as well as overall Linux adoption, they can keep on travelling down that road.
                      You seem to know a lot about how to make things prosperous.

                      Originally posted by betam4x View Post
                      You also overestimate XWayland. Yes, changes/optimizations have been made, but in the end, it is still X11, and subject to all the strengths and limitations.
                      What exactly is a problem here? Especially concerning games?

                      Originally posted by betam4x View Post
                      Another person mentioned Wayland is better, that is an opinionated argument. Based on my knowledge as an informed developer, security expert, and end user, I can say with confidence that Wayland has many flaws.
                      That's a empty argument. We are talking about software and protocols. They always have flaws. Do you know a better protocol? Do you have concrete suggestions how to make things better?

                      And please don't say: support everything that X11 or the win32 API does. Because that would just mean that "security expert" does not apply to you.

                      Originally posted by betam4x View Post
                      Finally, someone mentioned ReactOS. ReactOS has been developed since the 90s, and still isn't usable in a production environment.
                      Agreed.

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