GNOME Work Is Underway For Sharper Background Images

[Mario Junior]

One single guy by Canonical fixing the all shit made by these fucking shit Gnome developers pieces of shit fucking narcissists.

Kudos for this guy!

[brent]

For whatever reason, Canonical's developers (or just Daniel?) are *still* treated as second-class citizen, it seems. I mean, we have various performance-related MRs that have

* provably and significantly improved performance
* sometimes, the changes are quite straight forward
* some of the fine points have been discussed and feedback has been incorporated etc.
* the authors have been responsive and attentive
* have gotten positive reviews by established maintainers

And they're still not getting merged!

For instance: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutte...e_requests/575

This has been dragging on for around 8 months. Daniel van Vugt certainly has patience. Most people would have given up by now. Not sure what's going on, but I've been following MRs to mutter and gnome-shell and various other developers appear to receive far less scrutiny. Some of the established maintainers basically merge their MRs without proper review, even.

[Britoid]

For whatever reason, Canonical's developers (or just Daniel?) are *still* treated as second-class citizen, it seems. I mean, we have various performance-related MRs that have

* provably and significantly improved performance
* sometimes, the changes are quite straight forward
* some of the fine points have been discussed and feedback has been incorporated etc.
* the authors have been responsive and attentive
* have gotten positive reviews by established maintainers

And they're still not getting merged!

For instance: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutte...e_requests/575

This has been dragging on for around 8 months. Daniel van Vugt certainly has patience. Most people would have given up by now. Not sure what's going on, but I've been following MRs to mutter and gnome-shell and various other developers appear to receive far less scrutiny. Some of the established maintainers basically merge their MRs without proper review, even.

That MR has only been sane for a couple of months, it will likely get picked up late in the development cycle.

Van Vugt isn't a GNOME developer, his patches usually come out of no where and sometimes trample on work being done by others, and isn't the easiest to work with - see https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutte...00#note_691363

A lot of talk goes on in the GNOME development IRC channels, so just because something appears on the Gitlab as being merged straight away doesn't mean it hasn't been discussed and reviewed already.

[brent]

That MR has only been sane for a couple of months, it will likely get picked up late in the development cycle.

"Only for a couple of months"? Motivated developers are easily frustrated in a matter of weeks. If GNOME developers keep dragging stuff for *months*, they are going to lose many talented and motivated contributors. Most probably the only thing that keeps Daniel Van Vugt (and some others) going is that he is getting paid for it.

Van Vugt isn't a GNOME developer, his patches usually come out of no where and sometimes trample on work being done by others, and isn't the easiest to work with - see https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutte...00#note_691363

The same is often true for other developers' contributions, but they don't get neglected the same way. I don't understand the "not easy to work with" comment in this regard, either. I think it's rather strange that GNOME developers don't want to tag MRs, actually. They should be tagged according to the author's intent. Otherwise tagging doesn't make much sense.

A lot of talk goes on in the GNOME development IRC channels, so just because something appears on the Gitlab as being merged straight away doesn't mean it hasn't been discussed and reviewed already.

OK, good point.

I guess what's still quite baffling for me is that performance is still *the* area where GNOME needs serious improvements. It is, arguably, more important that anything else right now. The popularity of inofficial performance patchsets, which many people use, shows that easily. GNOME developers should welcome and prioritize any MRs that help in this area and help to get possible improvements merged.

[xinorom]

Motivated developers are easily frustrated in a matter of weeks. If GNOME developers keep dragging stuff for *months*, they are going to lose many talented and motivated contributors. Most probably the only thing that keeps Daniel Van Vugt (and some others) going is that he is getting paid for it.

If you give up in a matter of weeks then you're clearly not very "motivated". Perhaps you're talking more about ADHD developers like yourself...?

I agree the GNOME development process is very broken, but patches taking weeks to land is the least of their worries.

The bigger question is, how was the most visible and critical piece of infrastructure (gnome-shell) that underlies the whole desktop experience allowed to be written like a third-rate hobby project, in an awful language like JavaScript? And how did it get to this point in time, without anyone having done the bare minimum amount of performance profiling?

It's probably because most GNOME projects are just Red Hat letting interns throw shit at the wall and seeing what sticks...

[tildearrow]

One single guy by Canonical fixing the all shit made by these fucking shit Gnome developers pieces of shit fucking narcissists.

Kudos for this guy!

Are you the author of "Gnome Shell Sucks !!!"? o-o

(warning: NSFW, too many insults)

[Mario Junior]

Are you the author of "Gnome Shell Sucks !!!"? o-o

(warning: NSFW, too many insults)

lol no 😂

[Charlie68]

For whatever reason, Canonical's developers (or just Daniel?) are *still* treated as second-class citizen, it seems. I mean, we have various performance-related MRs that have

* provably and significantly improved performance
* sometimes, the changes are quite straight forward
* some of the fine points have been discussed and feedback has been incorporated etc.
* the authors have been responsive and attentive
* have gotten positive reviews by established maintainers

And they're still not getting merged!

For instance: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutte...e_requests/575

This has been dragging on for around 8 months. Daniel van Vugt certainly has patience. Most people would have given up by now. Not sure what's going on, but I've been following MRs to mutter and gnome-shell and various other developers appear to receive far less scrutiny. Some of the established maintainers basically merge their MRs without proper review, even.

Not so much the Canonical developers are treated as second class, it is Canonical which for several reasons has not been very collaborative in the past. Each company is free to behave as it wishes, but then the attitude of the "community" towards these developers is normal for it to be distrustful.
I could give many examples, but it is known that Canonical's upstream contribution over the years has been almost irrelevant, now they are making some upstream contributions to Gnome, but in the meantime Canonical is enjoying the work that Gnome devs have done, don't forget it!

[dragon321]

What part of "we don't want to update our OS which updates Gnome to a version our plugins aren't compatible with which then breaks our desktop unless we either quit using plugins or downgrade Gnome" do you not get or understand?

I know where to get extensions. Simply put -- my desktop will not rely on 3rd party plugins from some website.

Ever got such situation or we are now speaking about possible situations? Please don't talk me about extension XYZ which stopped working after update. Yeah, extensions sometimes breaks. Mostly unofficial extensions. Desktop icons isn't unofficial extension (again it's not 3rd party extension from some website) and official extensions are maintained by GNOME developers which possibly know if GNOME Shell update gonna break their extensions so they update it with shell. I can't remember situation after desktop icons extension break after update.

It seems you just don't like GNOME 3 and try to find reasons why GNOME 3 is bad. Calling official GNOME extension "some 3rd party extension from some website" is proof about it. I can speak about your desktop environment like "my Linux won't run 3rd party desktop from some website".

I suppose that for most people here it is easy to manage through it. But for user lambda it's not that easy. First he has to be aware that he can install extensions. It's not exactly explained anywhere after a fresh install. Then where to get and install them (not even mentioning it's weird to do it from a browser).
That's an active approach involved here that could already be a dealbreaker for some.

I can't see if it's harder than installing your favorite applications. It's well documented and easy to find. It's on first page of Google when you write "gnome 3 desktop icons". Aside from that, some distributions has this extension in repository so you don't have to install it from extensions page.

[skeevy420]

Ever got such situation or we are now speaking about possible situations? Please don't talk me about extension XYZ which stopped working after update. Yeah, extensions sometimes breaks. Mostly unofficial extensions. Desktop icons isn't unofficial extension (again it's not 3rd party extension from some website) and official extensions are maintained by GNOME developers which possibly know if GNOME Shell update gonna break their extensions so they update it with shell. I can't remember situation after desktop icons extension break after update.

It seems you just don't like GNOME 3 and try to find reasons why GNOME 3 is bad. Calling official GNOME extension "some 3rd party extension from some website" is proof about it. I can speak about your desktop environment like "my Linux won't run 3rd party desktop from some website".



I can't see if it's harder than installing your favorite applications. It's well documented and easy to find. It's on first page of Google when you write "gnome 3 desktop icons". Aside from that, some distributions has this extension in repository so you don't have to install it from extensions page.

Two or three years ago I spent weeks getting a nice Gnome desktop setup just the way I liked. A few days later an update happened that broke half of the extensions I was using. Don't ask exact names or versions. I don't remember. All I know is everything I got came from the official Gnome extension page.

And about the official Gnome extension page...give me a link that shows the difference between an official extension and an unofficial extension. I see sort by Name, Recent, Downloads, & Popularity. I see everything lumped into 119 pages. Then I clicked on About where I found this:

Since extensions are created outside of the normal GNOME design and development process, they are supported by their authors, rather than by the GNOME community. Some features first implemented as extensions might find their way into future versions of GNOME.

So, according to that, there are no official Gnome extensions. By supported Gnome extensions, do you mean "extensions made by Gnome developers"? If that's yes, do you honestly expect people to cross-reference Gnome developers with extension developers and to only use an extension when there's an overlap?

FWIW, half the crap on the KDE extension page doesn't work because it's old. What sucks is that same stuff is available in Plasma OOTB via Discover and a some website isn't needed. My Plasma desktop doesn't run 3rd party stuff from the official Plasma getting shit place or the official Plasma "some website".

I don't like relying on extensions regardless of the desktop environment. Gnome, to sufficiently operate like how I'd want a computer to operate, won't do that without multiple plugins, so I don't like Gnome.

I don't have to try to find a reason. Go to gnome.org and look at their screenshot. It doesn't have a fucking taskbar and the "start menu" is full screen. Gnome shows me why I don't like it right from the very first image on their website.

KDE's screenshot:

Taskbar and floating windows

Gnome's Screenshot:

No taskbar and a retarded ass full screen program launcher.