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Trinity Desktop R14.0.7 Released For Keeping KDE 3 Spirit Alive In 2020

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    Paradigm Shifter
    Senior Member

  • Paradigm Shifter
    replied
    Originally posted by k1e0x View Post

    If it's so good.. why does Finder, Nautilus, Dolphin, Thunar and everything else I can think of do it the other way? It's a serious pain on a trackpad too. two finger tap, one finger tap, two finger tap. You can't even really do that much from that menu (except commonly adjust your graphics card settings..?? clearly what I want to do.) https://www.online-tech-tips.com/wp-...pg.optimal.jpg

    the user clicked the file, they want to do something with the file. open the context menu for the file. jesus christ..
    By that logic, there should be no, "Are you sure?" dialogue or delay when you click shutdown and the system should just initiate shutdown there and then... and cue wailing and gnashing of teeth when work is lost.

    I will presume you didn't read my second post, which was two posts after the one you quoted, and explained some of my quick testing in latest-public-build-Windows 10 and latest-public-build-Cinnamon/Nemo. I loathe trackpads in general - the IBM TrackPoint was/is infinitely superior for actual usage as an input/control device. Sadly I've only ever owned one laptop with one. I find using trackpads a terrible experience, so I try to avoid it if possible.

    If I want to do complex file manipulation in Windows Explorer, I will use the keyboard. Shift and up/down, or Ctrl and up/down (hitting space when file highlighted to select), then Delete, Ctrl+C/V/X or the function button normally to the right of Alt Gr for access to the right-click context menu if needed.

    Blame nVidia/ATi/Intel for the "right click to adjust graphics settings" abomination. I don't even think there should be a "Share with..." option in that optimal menu.

    Originally posted by birdie View Post
    Taskbar thumbnails were first introduced in Windows 7 FFS!
    I'm pretty sure it was Vista...?

    Originally posted by k1e0x View Post

    I think taskbars are bad entirely JP. I think they are a waste of screen real estate and have no real function.

    UI's are a hobby of mine and I've used a lot of really odd ones.. (Sun's Looking Glass, ever hear of that? ya .. Oh I found video)

    My dad has the same opinion as you. It's frustrating looking at apps and webpages and seeing every design being something different. I agree with people on that aspect.
    I may be reading this wrong, but what I read from this line is, "Difference bad! Everyone must march to the same tune! No divergence!"

    Anyway.

    I think the positioning of Taskbars, given the aspect ratio of modern screens is poor. Horizontal real estate is plentiful, vertical is not. The 95/98/2000/XP/Vista Taskbar was narrower than the 7/8/10 one, so did not have as much of an impact (also screens were 4:3 or 5:4, not 16:9) but if it wasn't for the fact I struggled to retrain myself with a Taskbar on the left edge I would think that is a better idea. Still not perfect, though.

    Classic Taskbars, like 95/98/2000/XP/Vista gave a single location (albeit a little spread out) which instantly allowed you access to: a) a menu allowing you access to anything in the system, b) critical shortcuts, c) user-run programs and d) a clock and system notification area. Modern Taskbars, where lots of icons can be visible regardless of whether the program is running, with a (fairly minor) UI tweak to indicate it is running feels like a design regression to me - especially since the Taskbar got taller to fit those icons better.

    I've been experimenting recently with an (almost permanently hidden) Taskbar in Cinnamon, with a plank dock at the top for my most used non-terminal applications and Conky telling me the info I have classically demanded (Time, Date, CPU/RAM/Process/Disk/Network info...) it is working well enough that I could get used to it longer term. It's harder to do in Windows due to lack of a good equivalent to Conky (yes, I know, Rainmeter, but to get any significant system information out of it requires different system monitoring tools running in the background too, and custom scripts are more work for even a minimalist sysinfo panel) and the fact that even now doing anything in the terminal in Windows is more troublesome than it needs to be.

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  • tildearrow
    Senior Member

  • tildearrow
    replied
    Originally posted by betam4x View Post

    You clearly do not understand what KDE5 is or what it does. Every single one of those things you mentioned can be accomplished by even a novice developer,
    ...and this, guys, is the biggest problem with Linux.
    "If it doesn't exist, code it" is the problem. It should exist. Average Joe is not a freaking programmer! He just wants to use his computer and be done there.

    Leave a comment:

  • k1e0x
    Senior Member

  • k1e0x
    replied
    Originally posted by birdie View Post

    Taskbar thumbnails were first introduced in Windows 7 FFS!

    Windows previews when Alt-Tabbing were first introduced in Windows 7 FFS!

    Have you lived under the rock recently?

    I love IceWM actually but it's kinda cumbersome to set up - you have to edit text files manually. I used it exclusively for a couple of years before KDE 3 matured (I wasn't a fan of KDE 1/2).
    What does 7 have to do with anything? I'm lost. 7 nor 10 are good designs but they have improvements. When they were implemented doesn't matter so long as they are implemented.
    k1e0x
    Senior Member
    Last edited by k1e0x; 31 December 2019, 04:24 PM.

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  • k1e0x
    Senior Member

  • k1e0x
    replied
    Originally posted by JPFSanders View Post

    That you like more the interface/launcher of the desktop Windows 7 than the one in Windows XP or Gnome 2 or MacOS or AmigaOS 3.1 has nothing to do with what I was saying regarding the quality of engineering designs (not to be confused with not code quality)

    I do not mean you're wrong or anything with your appreciation, I too like Windows 7's GUI although I think the task bar lost functionality compared to the Windows XP one.

    When I said that GUI peaked in the Windows 2000 era, I was talking about the functionality+design of the GUI elements and associated libraries, by that point computer GUI's (using a keyboard and mouse) On screen gadgets (menus, buttons, combo-menus, text edit fields, frames, etc) had reached a level of ergonomic and engineering sophistication that has been on the decline since the advent of the touch screen idiocy.

    GUIs on the modern era resemble old VCR's in that each one was different from one another even the same manufacturer will not produce two that had the same knobs and buttons, and all where all over the place. You had to learn how to use a VCRs timer programming from scratch each time you changed your VCR. Each VCR was flashier and different than the last one, they used 15-20 buttons hid on a panel when all they needed was some software, 4 cursor keys and an OK/Cancel button.

    To find a more Modern analogy, modern GUIs resemble remote controllers, My TV controller has 46 buttons! of which you use barely 3-4 of them at any given time and it is not even a Smart TV, the menus are confusing and hard to navigate, that is modern GUI for you, change your TV and have to re-learn everything from Scratch.

    This is the similar approach to building GUIs lately and it all started with Windows 8 and the abomination that is MS Office's ribbon style button pannels.
    I think taskbars are bad entirely JP. I think they are a waste of screen real estate and have no real function.

    UI's are a hobby of mine and I've used a lot of really odd ones.. (Sun's Looking Glass, ever hear of that? ya .. Oh I found video)

    My dad has the same opinion as you. It's frustrating looking at apps and webpages and seeing every design being something different. I agree with people on that aspect.

    However most OS's do follow a consistent model and we have a pretty good idea now what is good. Lets take the recent versions of the most popular desktops people use, Windows 10, macOS, Gnome and Plasma .. and the REALLY big OS's that people commonly use Android and iOS you can see some similarities from them. (and I mean real google android, not the skins or samsungs)

    Status info on the top. (usually settings and system information is on the top too, the exception is KDE and Windows)
    Thumbnail "Exposé style" task selection.
    Search application launch in flavor of list. (as people have too many applications now for list to be effective)

    Most of them really are becoming more similar as time goes on, with the exception of windows.. and as I said before I think Microsoft knows that model is right they just want to move slowly so they don't anger people.

    I think you're wrong about the UI for the VCR/Remote analogy in so far as Operating System UI's .. when it comes to embeded OS's and devices like smart TV's or gadgets and apps.. yes. You pretty much nailed it. People don't follow common conventions and it's really annoying. TV's are THE WORST.. specially cable boxes.

    My remote has ~8 buttons btw.. all is not lost. (fire cube)
    k1e0x
    Senior Member
    Last edited by k1e0x; 31 December 2019, 02:52 PM.

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  • birdie
    Senior Member

  • birdie
    replied
    Originally posted by k1e0x View Post

    I never used 8. I know nothing about it. My comments have nothing to do with it.. My opinion is, windows was always a bad UI design and still is.

    Tho there are some improvements in 10.

    You can jam your mouse into the lower right and click and you *do* open the start menu now.. microsoft learned that and fixed it.

    Microsoft also agrees with me that thumbnails of the windows you want are easier to distinguish than text. The task bar now shows thumbnails. (it's better but still not as good as Gnome, macOS, iOS or Android)
    You can do <super> type and enter and this.. sort of works like spotlight.. tho it's crippled by windows really odd search algorithm.

    Windows 10 makes better use of the screen edges as well.. and they made some fixes to notifications that are better. And they finally created a real clock instead of having users check their calendar with the set time feature.

    Microsoft also did appear to try to clean up the start menu categories.. it's still a wild mess but it's better.

    Even Microsoft knows the right way to do things.. I think the reason they don't is for legacy users and fear of making too much of a change.. so they implement this stuff slowly.

    Have you tried IceWM birdie? Why not run that? If you want to be suck in the past go full past.. no.. I don't think thats reasonable.. you can improve your own workflow and make it easier on yourself it just takes a little bit of time and understanding to realize yes.. there are real reasons behind the changes you see in all modern OS's and yes they do make sense.
    Taskbar thumbnails were first introduced in Windows 7 FFS!

    Windows previews when Alt-Tabbing were first introduced in Windows 7 FFS!

    Have you lived under the rock recently?

    I love IceWM actually but it's kinda cumbersome to set up - you have to edit text files manually. I used it exclusively for a couple of years before KDE 3 matured (I wasn't a fan of KDE 1/2).

    Leave a comment:

  • k1e0x
    Senior Member

  • k1e0x
    replied
    Originally posted by birdie View Post

    They were neither hard nor expensive from 1981 to 2012 when Windows 8 was released. Suddenly when Windows 8 was released it all became hard. Wow. What an asinine observation we have here.



    There was no UI/HIG research after Windows 95. Windows 8 was created as a Frankenstein OS meant to be usable both by desktop and mobile/touch users and it spectacularly failed at both because most touch-centric features were removed in Windows 10.

    I'm done arguing with you because you clearly understand shit in UI/HIG and you're talking straight from your arse.
    I never used 8. I know nothing about it. My comments have nothing to do with it.. My opinion is, windows was always a bad UI design and still is.

    Though there are some improvements in 10:

    You can jam your mouse into the lower right and click and you *do* open the start menu now.. microsoft learned that and fixed it.

    Microsoft also agrees with me that thumbnails of the windows you want are easier to distinguish than text. The task bar now shows thumbnails. (it's better but still not as good as Gnome, macOS, iOS or Android)

    You can do <super> type and enter and this.. sort of works like spotlight.. tho it's crippled by windows really odd search algorithm.

    Windows 10 makes better use of the screen edges as well.. and they made some fixes to notifications that are better. And they finally created a real clock instead of having users check their calendar with the set time feature.

    Microsoft also did appear to try to clean up the start menu categories.. it's still a wild mess but it's better.

    Placing the start bar on the top of the monitor is still somewhat broken though.. Not sure why windows title bars appear under it.. every other OS does not have that problem.. hmm.

    Even Microsoft knows the right way to do things.. I think the reason they don't is for legacy users and fear of making too much of a change.. so they implement this stuff slowly.

    Have you tried IceWM birdie? Why not run that? If you want to be suck in the past go full past.. no.. I don't think thats reasonable.. you can improve your own workflow and make it easier on yourself it just takes a little bit of time and understanding to realize yes.. there are real reasons behind the changes you see in all modern OS's and yes they do make sense.
    k1e0x
    Senior Member
    Last edited by k1e0x; 31 December 2019, 02:08 PM.

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  • k1e0x
    Senior Member

  • k1e0x
    replied
    Originally posted by Paradigm Shifter View Post
    And in list view with total files exceeding the fill of the window, these oh-so-helpful auto-select-file methods do not allow me access to the folder context menu. I have to switch to icon view, carefully navigate my cursor into the space between two or more file icons/names and right click then.

    Explicit selection of target before context action is a good thing, not a bad thing.
    If it's so good.. why does Finder, Nautilus, Dolphin, Thunar and everything else I can think of do it the other way? It's a serious pain on a trackpad too. two finger tap, one finger tap, two finger tap. You can't even really do that much from that menu (except commonly adjust your graphics card settings..?? clearly what I want to do.) https://www.online-tech-tips.com/wp-...pg.optimal.jpg

    the user clicked the file, they want to do something with the file. open the context menu for the file. jesus christ..
    k1e0x
    Senior Member
    Last edited by k1e0x; 31 December 2019, 01:42 PM.

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  • Vistaus
    Senior Member

  • Vistaus
    replied
    Originally posted by schmalzler View Post
    Your crashes and non-working apps show that trinity lacks manpower.
    JuK KDE 5 version also crashes for me, same goes for Kolf's KDE 5 version in certain levels. Does this mean KDE lacks manpower too? What an idiotic argument...
    Meanwhile, the TDE versions of these apps never crash for me.

    Leave a comment:

  • Vistaus
    Senior Member

  • Vistaus
    replied
    Originally posted by Adriannho View Post
    I can barely contain my laughter whenever I hear this thing still exists.
    Exactly my thoughts every time I read a GNOME article.

    Leave a comment:

  • coats
    Junior Member

  • coats
    replied
    Originally posted by andyprough View Post
    Trinity has got a number of tools that simply do not exist in today's desktops. I still end up using it quite often...
    And it's a lifesaver when your distro (e.g., Mageia 7) has a KDE that absolutely screws up xrandr...

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