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Trinity Desktop R14.0.7 Released For Keeping KDE 3 Spirit Alive In 2020

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  • #11
    Originally posted by birdie View Post
    It's amazing how the most feature-rich, useful and stable DE in Linux is getting so much contempt from people most of whom have never written a single line of code, who can't distinguish "modern" shit UI (Gnome 3/KDE 5/Windows 10) from usable UI (classic Windows 95 UI) and who prefer shit font AA (e.g. MacOS on normal-DPI displays) to the best AA in existence (ClearType v2 in Windows 7).
    We often don't think about how bad those old UI's actually were. Familiarity and usability are not the same thing.

    Just an example but it illustrates one of the many problems.. on older versions of windows, if you pushed your mouse into the lower right and clicked you would not open the start menu. You had to back it up slightly and get into the start button widget frame then click to activate it... Fine mouse movements are expensive and difficult for a user.

    The classic Windows UI is bad for a multitude of reasons. Listing open windows in a horizontal list is extremely bad. Your eyes have to move from left to right and scan text to find something. Almost all operating systems have abandoned that as it's shown that showing a thumbnail of the window you want to raise is much easier. Windows 10 is a little bit of an outlier here as they kind of use a hybrid thumbnail list but they have the legacy user problem.
    k1e0x
    Senior Member
    Last edited by k1e0x; 30 December 2019, 04:42 PM.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by birdie View Post
      It's amazing how the most feature-rich, useful and stable DE in Linux is getting so much contempt from people most of whom have never written a single line of code, who can't distinguish "modern" shit UI (Gnome 3/KDE 5/Windows 10) from usable UI (classic Windows 95 UI) and who prefer shit font AA (e.g. MacOS on normal-DPI displays) to the best AA in existence (ClearType v2 in Windows 7).
      I got the nostalgia from watching the pictures but soon remembered the crashes, Plasma 5 didn't crash for me in months, with KDE3 it was a near daily experience.
      Fonts in Windows 7 looked better then Windows 10 but still the screen to the left runs Linux and the fonts somehow look crisper to me.

      Originally posted by k1e0x View Post
      The classic Windows UI is bad for a multitude of reasons. Listing open windows in a horizontal list is extremely bad. Your eyes have to move from left to right and scan text to find something. Almost all operating systems have abandoned that as it's shown that showing a thumbnail of the window you want to raise is much easier. Windows 10 is a little bit of an outlier here as they kind of use a hybrid thumbnail list but they have the legacy user problem.
      Strange how I went from latte dock back to the normal Plasma dock with the Task Manager being this horizontal list. Guess what, using the with and showing text there makes it easier to hit with the mouse and gives more information. Anyway better not to use the mouse at all
      slalomsk8er
      Senior Member
      Last edited by slalomsk8er; 30 December 2019, 04:58 PM.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by slalomsk8er View Post

        I got the nostalgia from watching the pictures but soon remembered the crashes, Plasma 5 didn't crash for me in months, with KDE3 it was a near daily experience.
        Fonts in Windows 7 looked better then Windows 10 but still the screen to the left runs Linux and the fonts somehow look crisper to me.



        Strange how I went from latte dock back to the normal Plasma dock with the Task Manager being this horizontal list. Guess what, using the with and showing text there makes it easier to hit with the mouse and gives more information. Anyway better not to use the mouse at all
        Idk.. the entire concept is bad.. always was.. personally I'm a gnome/mac user.. I press a key and see all my open apps. no lists at all. Far simpler and I don't have to move my hands at all.. What is easier to click... a 10x40 square at the edge of the screen, or a 80x80 picture in the center?


        I think KDE 3 was always kind of bad but.. Around that time there was a fork/idea for KDE of an interface called Slicker that I liked.. It used card based widgets. I think that is a good analogue, WebOS used it as well and a lot of that was copped into Android/iOS.
        k1e0x
        Senior Member
        Last edited by k1e0x; 30 December 2019, 05:25 PM.

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        • #14
          Please explain to me how KDE3 is in any way superior to KDE 5? I'm not seeing it.

          EDIT: Oh and uh, you can make KDE 5 look like KDE 3 and act like it if you really REALLY want to...

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          • #15
            Originally posted by betam4x View Post
            Please explain to me how KDE3 is in any way superior to KDE 5? I'm not seeing it.

            EDIT: Oh and uh, you can make KDE 5 look like KDE 3 and act like it if you really REALLY want to...
            Enlighten me how you can put these items in the task bar in KDE5:
            • CPU usage indicator
            • Various HW sensors as numbers
            • RAM use as numbers
            • Network interfaces activity LEDs
            • Tasks run at an internal output
            • Weather conditions and current temperature as a number
            etc. etc. etc.

            Also, tell me how the task bar can be made fully transparent. I have neither time, nor desire to constantly minimize all my apps to stare at the desktop where I have pretty much nothing. It's asinine.

            Also, enlighten me how to stop KDE from shitting all over my ~/.config and ~/.local

            KDE3/4 stored everything under ~/.kde{3,4} and /var/tmp/$username. XFCE stores everything under ~/.config/xfce4 and doesn't really have any temporary files to speak of.

            Only KDE5 doesn't respect any conventions.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by k1e0x View Post

              We often don't think about how bad those old UI's actually were. Familiarity and usability are not the same thing.

              Just an example but it illustrates one of the many problems.. on older versions of windows, if you pushed your mouse into the lower right and clicked you would not open the start menu. You had to back it up slightly and get into the start button widget frame then click to activate it... Fine mouse movements are expensive and difficult for a user.

              The classic Windows UI is bad for a multitude of reasons. Listing open windows in a horizontal list is extremely bad. Your eyes have to move from left to right and scan text to find something. Almost all operating systems have abandoned that as it's shown that showing a thumbnail of the window you want to raise is much easier. Windows 10 is a little bit of an outlier here as they kind of use a hybrid thumbnail list but they have the legacy user problem.
              Fine mouse movements are difficult for toddlers and people with Parkinson's. If you have troubles using your mouse, maybe computer UIs are not for you and you'll be better served by the tablet.

              Windows 95 was a culmination of UI development backed by strong scientific UI/HIG research. It all went out of the window when Windows 8 arrived which then was maimed even further by iOS/Android and then resulted in the abomination of UIs that we have now, including brain-damaged Web 3.0.

              Strangely most people with an actual brain agree with me.
              birdie
              Senior Member
              Last edited by birdie; 30 December 2019, 05:46 PM.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by birdie View Post

                Enlighten me how you can put these items in the task bar in KDE5:
                • CPU usage indicator
                • Various HW sensors as numbers
                • RAM use as numbers
                • Network interfaces activity LEDs
                • Tasks run at an internal output
                • Weather conditions and current temperature as a number
                etc. etc. etc.

                Also, tell me how the task bar can be made fully transparent. I have neither time, nor desire to constantly minimize all my apps to stare at the desktop where I have pretty much nothing. It's asinine.

                Also, enlighten me how to stop KDE from shitting all over my ~/.config and ~/.local

                KDE3/4 stored everything under ~/.kde{3,4} and /var/tmp/$username. XFCE stores everything under ~/.config/xfce4 and doesn't really have any temporary files to speak of.

                Only KDE5 doesn't respect any conventions.
                You clearly do not understand what KDE5 is or what it does. Every single one of those things you mentioned can be accomplished by even a novice developer, provided there is not already an existing widget to do it. Maintaining a set of widgets is certainly easier than maintaining an entire desktop environment. KDE also does not 'shit all over' anything. It adheres to the standards set by freedesktop.org.

                EDIT: I'm going to add here that KDE 5 can be completely customized to fit practically any workflow. You can make it look like Windows, the MacOS, KDE3, GNOME, whatever your fetish is.
                betam4x
                Senior Member
                Last edited by betam4x; 30 December 2019, 06:39 PM.

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                • #18
                  I use KDE since KDE3 and I do not see how KDE5 can be considered inferior to KDE3. If the only things you are missing are old widgets/applications, port them, instead of maintaining a whole DE.

                  Unlike GNOME (and Windows), KDE kept a good desktop design. There are none of those stupid pseudo-modern things you see in GNOME3, Windows 10 or, worse of all, Windows 8 ! This "convergence" thing is stupid. Why would you want tablets and computers to have the same interface ? Cars and motorcycles do not have the same "interface", because they are different things with different characteristics, even though they have similar purposes : moving.
                  This stupid idea destroyed GNOME and Windows but NOT KDE (nor LXQt). Cinnamon exists for the good reason that GNOME3 adopted bad design principles (they happily seem to have realized that fact and are now providing classical sessions themselves) but KDE5 is great and I see no reason to prefer KD3/Trinity. Cinnamon and KDE(5) do the things right : a good, classical, design over modern technologies (GTK3/Qt5).

                  Now, if people want to lose time maintaining an outdated KDE, well, that's their right.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by birdie View Post

                    Fine mouse movements are difficult for toddlers and people with Parkinson's. If you have troubles using your mouse, maybe computer UIs are not for you and you'll be better served by the tablet.

                    Windows 95 was a culmination of UI development backed by strong scientific UI/HIG research. It all went out of the window when Windows 8 arrived which then was maimed even further by iOS/Android and then resulted in the abomination of UIs that we have now, including brain-damaged Web 3.0.

                    Strangely most people with an actual brain agree with me.
                    I completely agree with you, I would add that GUI development peaked back in the Windows 2000 era and has been since getting progressively worse ever since. As you mentioned Windows 8 was the abomination.

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by birdie View Post

                      Fine mouse movements are difficult for toddlers and people with Parkinson's. If you have troubles using your mouse, maybe computer UIs are not for you and you'll be better served by the tablet.
                      Yeah right.. this is denial right here. I didn't say they are "hard" I said they are expensive, meaning they take time away from *any* user not just disabled ones. Your preferred interface uses a lot of fine movements, I'm sorry that just isn't optimal but that's the case. I think you need to take a step back and re-evaluate things.. perhaps the reason you like what you like is due to familiarity more than ease of use. That is ok.. but it is a different thing.

                      Originally posted by birdie View Post
                      Windows 95 was a culmination of UI development backed by strong scientific UI/HIG research. It all went out of the window when Windows 8 arrived which then was maimed even further by iOS/Android and then resulted in the abomination of UIs that we have now, including brain-damaged Web 3.0.
                      Yes, but most of that old research has been thrown out for better models and subsequent research. As we learn new information we have to abandon old ideas. I agree with you on Web 3.0 tho..

                      Any UI design will show the most valuable areas of the screen are the edges, because they are the easiest to hit. Windows 95 uses none of them well. The very easiest is the top, then the sides then the bottom.
                      k1e0x
                      Senior Member
                      Last edited by k1e0x; 30 December 2019, 07:26 PM.

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