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KDE Now Deals With GTK CSD Headerbars - Improving GNOME App Integration On Plasma

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  • #41
    Originally posted by duby229 View Post

    Sorry, but I disagree. Just my opinion here, no possible way broken look and feel and enormous amounts of white space benefits -anyone- at all. Not Gnome, not KDE, not app devs, and most especially not end users.

    EDIT: And no, not everything "just works" on Gnome, themes break constantly as just one example.... (And let me not even get started on the literal dozen extensions or more needed to get it somewhat useful as an end user desktop interface, which also constantly break)
    But white space on titlebars is fine?

    GNOME's theme system is a CSS engine which provides a much bigger surface than the KDE theme system, unfortunately some theme makers figured this is a reason to start redesigning all apps en-mass which is where breakage happens. And as someone who doesn't use any extensions on GNOME, the normal GNOME shell to make is much more usable than any Windows-esque UI (KDE, Dash to Panel etc).

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    • #42
      Originally posted by duby229 View Post

      Which, -by definition- breaks look and feel... (You make that asinine statement as if you think it's somehow a good thing)

      And that's what Plasma devs have to deal with, unfortunately...
      There's larger things to be concerned about than what the top of a window looks like if you're worried about consistency. Font rendering, how HiDPI is handled, different file choosers, keybindings, HIGs etc. Unlike titlebars, these inconsistencies will actually negatively impact people.

      KDE apps are never going to feel "native" under GNOME and it's stupid to think otherwise, likewise in the opposite direction.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by Britoid View Post

        There's larger things to be concerned about than what the top of a window looks like if you're worried about consistency. Font rendering, how HiDPI is handled, different file choosers, keybindings, HIGs etc. Unlike titlebars, these inconsistencies will actually negatively impact people.

        KDE apps are never going to feel "native" under GNOME and it's stupid to think otherwise, likewise in the opposite direction.
        Qt and GTK+ 2.x got pretty damn close before GTK+ 3.x upset the applecart.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by ssokolow View Post

          Qt and GTK+ 2.x got pretty damn close before GTK+ 3.x upset the applecart.
          Shockers, different developers have different ideas and preferences for how they want to develop their toolkits.

          Expecting Qt and GTK applications to feel and act the same is like expecting Android applications to feel native under iOS. It isn't going to happen.
          Last edited by Britoid; 02 December 2019, 08:24 AM.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by Britoid View Post

            Shockers, different developers have different ideas and preferences for how they want to develop their toolkits.

            Expecting Qt and GTK applications to feel and act the same is like expecting Android applications to feel native under iOS. It isn't going to happen.
            no, but pretty much everyone should expect gtk applications to look and feel the same. they don't and plasma is the -only- desktop that handles it sanely, gnome exacerbates it to a ridiculous extreme.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by Britoid View Post

              There's larger things to be concerned about than what the top of a window looks like if you're worried about consistency. Font rendering, how HiDPI is handled, different file choosers, keybindings, HIGs etc. Unlike titlebars, these inconsistencies will actually negatively impact people.

              KDE apps are never going to feel "native" under GNOME and it's stupid to think otherwise, likewise in the opposite direction.
              well at least you recognize gnomes many other flaws and how they negatively impact people, but that makes you a hypocrite in this sense.

              consistency was already once achieved, it was gtk3 that broke it years ago and then gnome exacerbated it to a retarded extreme. hell, gnome isn't even anywhere close to consistent with just gtk apps, let alone between qt and gtk. plasma is waaaaaay ahead on consistency even though gnome constantly exacerbates it.
              Last edited by duby229; 02 December 2019, 02:21 PM.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by duby229 View Post

                well at least you recognize gnomes many other flaws and how they negatively impact people, but that makes you a hypocrite in this sense.

                consistency was already once achieved, it was gtk3 that broke it years ago and then gnome exacerbated it to a retarded extreme. hell, gnome isn't even anywhere close to consistent with just gtk apps, let alone between qt and gtk. plasma is waaaaaay ahead on consistency even though gnome constantly exacerbates it.
                negatively impact people?

                The only people GNOME can negatively impact are people who use GNOME Shell and developers who use GTK.

                So GTK is bad because it didn't copy Qt? I guess I missed the memo when Qt was made the defacto toolkit on the Linux desktop.
                Last edited by Britoid; 02 December 2019, 03:47 PM.

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                • #48
                  Iit
                  Originally posted by Britoid View Post

                  negatively impact people?

                  The only people GNOME can negatively impact are people who use GNOME Shell and developers who use GTK.

                  So GTK is bad because it didn't copy Qt? I guess I missed the memo when Qt was made the defacto toolkit on the Linux desktop.
                  it was gtk3 and gnome shell that broke it in the first place. consistency was already pretty much complete before they made the choi e to break it. nobody ever said qt was defacto, just that gtk3 in one fell swoop broke years of everyone's effort and gnome has since exacerbated it far worse.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Britoid View Post

                    negatively impact people?

                    The only people GNOME can negatively impact are people who use GNOME Shell and developers who use GTK.

                    So GTK is bad because it didn't copy Qt? I guess I missed the memo when Qt was made the defacto toolkit on the Linux desktop.
                    Qt and GTK+ are hardly the only toolkits for X11 and, before GNOME, Microsoft, and Apple decided to try to start to tablet-ifying their UIs, there was a general consensus across platforms on what the basic building blocks of a desktop GUI should be, even if getting things exactly right in a cross-platform app was much more difficult.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                      Iit
                      it was gtk3 and gnome shell that broke it in the first place. consistency was already pretty much complete before they made the choi e to break it. nobody ever said qt was defacto, just that gtk3 in one fell swoop broke years of everyone's effort and gnome has since exacerbated it far worse.
                      And apps looked shit compared to today.

                      You're complaining GTK isn't allowed to have its own HIG and must follow what Qt/KDE is doing for consistency.

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