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  • #61
    Originally posted by tildearrow View Post
    By that statement I'd be using some wireless Bluetooth headphones which encode the audio in AAC and I wouldn't still hear a difference.
    It's not quite the same. Human hearing has some pretty simple limits. There's the threshold of hearing, the maximum sound pressure one can handle without permanent hearing loss. When playing music, the tiniest nuances one can hear amount to something in the dB scale. 16-bit music has serious amounts of resolution. E.g. according to one source: 'the perceived dynamic range of 16-bit audio can be 120 dB or more with noise-shaped dither, taking advantage of the frequency response of the human ear.'. Even without dithering, the range is just huge. Large enough to blow a wide range of mid range stereo systems. You're most often limited by the analog amplifier, not 16-bit signal. I'll leave further mathematics as an exercise for the reader. I can do it, but I'm pretty sure that you're just one of the snake oil crowd with no idea how DSP or ABX tests work, just to name some basic methodology. I can't tell what kind of studio work you're doing there, but unless you're playing really loud (say have a 1000W pure class A amplifier) and still, at the same time want to differentiate between these tiny nuances, you're not gonna need all the resolution. Another sad thing is, your 24-bit "high definition" input stream might not have any content on the topmost 8 bits. A large number of original material is not 24 bits and the filters would attenuate it anyways.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by caligula View Post
      It's not quite the same. Human hearing has some pretty simple limits. There's the threshold of hearing, the maximum sound pressure one can handle without permanent hearing loss. When playing music, the tiniest nuances one can hear amount to something in the dB scale. 16-bit music has serious amounts of resolution. E.g. according to one source: 'the perceived dynamic range of 16-bit audio can be 120 dB or more with noise-shaped dither, taking advantage of the frequency response of the human ear.'. Even without dithering, the range is just huge.
      Every bit is a ~6dB step. This means that if you use an amplifier to output 96dB, there may be some noise at the end when it's almost silent.

      Originally posted by caligula View Post
      Large enough to blow a wide range of mid range stereo systems. You're most often limited by the analog amplifier, not 16-bit signal.
      I know, but most DACs have only begun to achieve 20 bits of SNR (~120dB). And theoretically it would be almost impossible to achieve 24 bits (or even higher) due to Johnson noise (maybe except in laboratory conditions but who's gonna do that?).

      Originally posted by caligula View Post
      I'll leave further mathematics as an exercise for the reader. I can do it, but I'm pretty sure that you're just one of the snake oil crowd with no idea how DSP or ABX tests work, just to name some basic methodology.
      I have somewhat read some of these articles, but I don't remember much.
      DSP=Digital Signal Processing
      ABX=Double-sided blind test. A is a sample, B is another, X is the blind subject that must tell the differences between A and B.

      Originally posted by caligula View Post
      I can't tell what kind of studio work you're doing there,
      Not much of a "studio work" but rather just trying to achieve perfection.
      Last edited by tildearrow; 09-18-2019, 01:08 AM.

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      • #63
        @oiaohm

        You're very right holocaust is tightly linked to jews, but ask yourself why? It was their sacrifice in exact meaning! I bet others don't follow such primitive religion and don't sacrifice their own people, so they call it genocide which is a proper word. Furthermore, it's true many other nations suffered much more than jews, but world usually hears only about jews. I don't care about their 'burning sacrifice', but I do care when someone genocides innocent people like Polish, Romanians, Russians and so on. Such genocides had nothing common with 'holocaust', because they weren't religious sacrifices. By burning with fire I was linking to inquisition. With damn CoC you would be banned from explaining the meaning of 'holocaust' and some people would consider it's a synonym of genocide which is not! Such 'small' difference, but lets people have different look what really happened during WW2.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Volta View Post
          You're very right holocaust is tightly linked to jews, but ask yourself why? It was their sacrifice in exact meaning! I bet others don't follow such primitive religion and don't sacrifice their own people, so they call it genocide which is a proper word.
          Romani Christian is also a primitive religion based off the outcasts of the jewish. So sections of the religion text is written in Hebrew. Yes the jewish documentation of around sacrifices is in the Romani Christian texts.

          Originally posted by Volta View Post
          Such genocides had nothing common with 'holocaust', because they weren't religious sacrifices.
          That is the big problem. To the Romani Christians the thing called genocide was in fact holocaust because it was religious sacrifices. The Nazis in fact put a unique symbol on the Romani because they recognised that the jew and Romani were different.

          Basically you have just made the same stupid excuse why its not Romani holocaust completely missing that jewish and Romani Christian are directly interlinked religions. So what jewish call something is the exact same thing Romani call it.

          With damn CoC you would be banned from explaining the meaning of 'holocaust' and some people would consider it's a synonym of genocide which is not!
          And missing how it wrong. Holocaust is not a synonym for genocide but many groups are forced to use genocide instead of what is correct Holocaust because people treat the word as jewish only totally ignoring the religions based directly off jewish where the word has the same meaning for their people.

          Yes this is off topic to the basic idea of the thread.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

            Basically you have just made the same stupid excuse why its not Romani holocaust completely missing that jewish and Romani Christian are directly interlinked religions. So what jewish call something is the exact same thing Romani call it.
            I aware of this, but the point was different. Do you believe someone sacrificed your people? If not then 'holocaust' is not proper word. If yes then you should indeed call it the 'holocaust'.

            And missing how it wrong. Holocaust is not a synonym for genocide but many groups are forced to use genocide instead of what is correct Holocaust because people treat the word as jewish only totally ignoring the religions based directly off jewish where the word has the same meaning for their people.
            I feel your pain. I was a Christian for many years, but I realized few important things and I don't pray to jewish 'god' anymore and I don't have to listen jewish stories while not being jew etc.

            Yes this is off topic to the basic idea of the thread.
            On the original topic I think I've shown you the artificial CoC is just bullshit. There's no way CoC defenders were following the rules.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by tildearrow View Post

              I can hear normally. The problem is that I can hear a faint noise coming out of my headphones when nothing is playing.
              Yes, my only point was some people are just happy to hear anything at all.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by fuzz View Post

                Yes, my only point was some people are just happy to hear anything at all.
                Most. Few people actually care about sound quality and lowered latency.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Volta View Post
                  I aware of this, but the point was different. Do you believe someone sacrificed your people? If not then 'holocaust' is not proper word. If yes then you should indeed call it the 'holocaust'.
                  Do note unique symbol on the Romani was because they were sacrificed for being classed as not pure. So to the Romani people it is 'Romani Holocaust' but to have their deaths recorded in history books and not forgotten Romani genocide had to be used.

                  So what is more important getting the job done or sticking to your principles and not getting the job done. This is why thinking I am Romani Christian using Holocaust as example is a dead end for you. We decided that it was more important to to get the job done of recording the loss of life than sticking absolutely to a principle. If the Romani had stuck to that it had to be called Romani Holocaust in historic books early on the Romani deaths possible would have been white washed out of existence.

                  Originally posted by Volta View Post
                  On the original topic I think I've shown you the artificial CoC is just bullshit. There's no way CoC defenders were following the rules.
                  The reality here is the accepting not to use the word Holocaust to get job done is no more artificial than the CoC. Does the CoC rules matter if you are there to code on the Linux kernel the answer is no it does not matter at all. All the restricted topics of CoC really have nothing to-do with software development.

                  You really have not shown me that CoC is just bullshit by picking Holocaust as a point meant you had lost the arguement at that point. It something my group classed as term that we could accept not being used to get the important fact of the deaths recorded. What makes the CoC any different for software development where particular topics are off limits because they are just distractions to getting the job done.

                  Yes all the arguement over what was and was not a Holocaust when you could call it a genocide and record all the details that proved it was a Holocaust instead what the difference long term. Romani faith makes us a little smarter at picking out battles.

                  By the way the idea that the CoC defenders were not following the rules is mostly true.
                  https://lwn.net/Articles/764325/
                  But read above there are many people who were being adversely effected to the point of giving up on submitting patches. Yes these people who were being adversely effected were not pushing for the CoC but were working on the lkml obeying the rules over the CoC naturally. Its the old saying the silent majority. 98% of the stuff in the LKML archive conforms to the CoC over the complete history of Linux kernel development.

                  At some point you have to make rules that suite the majority. Just like the same way us Romani had to tolerate the Holocaust against us being called genocide because that is what the majority wanted. Part of being civilised is not always getting what you want.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by tildearrow View Post

                    Most. Few people actually care about sound quality and lowered latency.
                    So much that. The majority of people I know might say something about sound quality when it's below 96kbps mp3 quality....as in 96kpbs mp3's are just fine for them.

                    My tinnitus makes it so I prefer higher quality encodes because I can hear the treble better. With lower quality stuff I have to turn the volume up and get washy highs or I just deal with it.

                    With most music I won't even bother complaining about low quality 128kpbs to 96kbps encodes...but then there's listening to Rush where it's FLAC or nope, nope, nope...

                    Under 96kbps....damn right I don't like it....

                    Perhaps it has to do with me being in band in back in school and knowing what good timbre sounds like.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by tildearrow View Post

                      Most. Few people actually care about sound quality and lowered latency.
                      And whether or not this is good or bad is entirely subjective

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