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The MATE Desktop Is Becoming Quite Usable On Wayland Via Mir

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  • Luke
    replied
    There's still a LOT left to do on MATE before wayland can replace Xorg entirely. First of all, we need a wayland window manager/compositor with support for or including something comparable to libwnck(which is X11-only) so that it is possible to have a window list, workspace switcher, and show desktop button in the panel. Then all of our panel applets have to be ported to run in-process (as was done for GNOME applets/gnome panel a while ago) as out-of-process depends on Xembed. We've already ported mate-media's volume applet to a freestanding panel applet (not in the tray) while also retaining the legacy tray icon as an option. That panel applet currently runs out-of-process and needs to become in-process.

    To entirely get rid of Xwayland we need to reimplement the desktop canvas in a wayland-compatable way. The current code for that is Xorg-only but works fine in xWayland with a few issues. The worst issue with that as of right now is that the desktop window can't be kept on the bottom, meaning it can cover up other windows. Also it is decorated and can be moved. At a miniumum we need to be able to force that desktop window to be fullscreen all the time, undecorated, and always on the bottom. Whether in Xwayland or a new implementation directly in wayland, that needs to be done.

    I too have however had a mate-panel (even with only a few applets and no window list) and caja-desktop running in Wayland, in my case using Wayfire. Wayfire is being built up as a wayland successor to compiz with some of the same plugins, the cube included. It would be a stunning addition to a wayland MATE session when both are in their final forms, so long as whatever replaces libwnck is compatable with it.

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  • Charlie68
    replied
    Does Mir still have license restrictions? I refer to the CLA.

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  • dragon321
    replied
    Originally posted by nslqqq View Post

    Mir is bringing back DE-DisplayServer separation.
    It's not. Mir is compositor with similar (or even almost identical) architecture and functionality to Wayland compositors. There is no separate Display Server and Window Manager - it's just compositor like any other Wayland compositor (KWin, Mutter, Weston etc).

    Leave a comment:


  • starshipeleven
    replied
    Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
    So instead of one X.org display server we have two (Wayland and Mir) ?
    and Kwin and Mutter and others.

    There is no more a "display server". Only desktop compositors that implement Wayland protocol.

    What about games, what about XWayland, is that like a third piece?
    XWayland is the compatibility layer to run applications that expect to find Xorg. It runs on top of the compositors.

    Leave a comment:


  • tildearrow
    replied
    Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
    So instead of one X.org display server we have two (Wayland and Mir) ?
    What's the point of this, how can 2 be better than one in this case?
    What about games, what about XWayland, is that like a third piece?
    OK, let me tell you.
    Wayland isn't a display server. It's just a protocol.
    Mir isn't a protocol anymore. Mir is just another Wayland compositor like Weston, GNOME Shell and KWin.
    So Mir is Wayland.

    Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
    So instead of one X.org display server we have two (Wayland and Wayland) ?

    Leave a comment:


  • Danny3
    replied
    Originally posted by AlanGriffiths View Post

    You are conflating protocols and servers. Maybe this helps:
    Protocol Display Server
    X11 Xorg
    Wayland Mir
    X11 Xwayland
    Or this: Ok, so what *is* this Wayland thing, anyway?
    Yes, thank you!

    Leave a comment:


  • ehansin
    replied
    Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
    So instead of one X.org display server we have two (Wayland and Mir) ?
    What's the point of this, how can 2 be better than one in this case?
    What about games, what about XWayland, is that like a third piece?
    Yeah, what the others have all said. Mir originally was going its own way, and yes there was controversy. But they shifted gears and are building Mir on top of the Wayland protocol as stated. I think it is a good thing. Any maybe they learned some things on their divergent path that will help it all even more in the long wrong, who knows. But that is the current state of Mir.

    The idea is to abstract away some of the "lower-level" Wayland stuff (i.e. creating a Wayland compositor - if I am saying that correctly) so that window managers and desktop environments do not need to reinvent the wheel each time. Things in the Wayland space seem to be moving along fine, I am all for it. Recently I moved to Sway and am going to try using it as my one window manager going forward (force some learning!) Sway by the way uses something called "wlroots" (developed by same people as Sway, but any other project can use) which is kind of like Mir, just an alternative choice, each probably with the various strengths and usage cases. Both use the Wayland protocol.

    Leave a comment:


  • BwackNinja
    replied
    Originally posted by JPFSanders View Post

    MIR runs on top of Wayland, what MIR is doing is allowing MATE to use Wayland easily kind of like a wrapper.
    Mir is a Wayland compositor, meaning that it implements Wayland protocols and allows for Wayland clients to run on it. There is no 'wayland display server', only individual Wayland compositors that implement the server-side wayland protocols. Gnome's Mutter does this, as does KDE's KWin, and there are desktop agnostic options like Sway. Mate-Panel itself and the fact that it works here has nothing to do with Mir -- it has been ported to use the layer-shell protocol, which means that it works on other Wayland compositors that implement that protocol as well, including those built using wlroots like Sway.

    Leave a comment:


  • nslqqq
    replied
    Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
    So instead of one X.org display server we have two (Wayland and Mir) ?
    What's the point of this, how can 2 be better than one in this case?
    What about games, what about XWayland, is that like a third piece?
    There is no standalone wayland display server. Wayland compositors implement everything from compositing to copy-paste.
    Mir is bringing back DE-DisplayServer separation.

    Leave a comment:


  • AlanGriffiths
    replied
    Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
    So instead of one X.org display server we have two (Wayland and Mir) ?
    What's the point of this, how can 2 be better than one in this case?
    What about games, what about XWayland, is that like a third piece?
    You are conflating protocols and servers. Maybe this helps:
    Protocol Display Server
    X11 Xorg
    Wayland Mir
    X11 Xwayland
    Or this: Ok, so what *is* this Wayland thing, anyway?

    Leave a comment:

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