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The Faster & More Beautiful GNOME 3.32 Has Been Released

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  • #41
    Originally posted by nranger View Post

    I'd bet a combination of the extensions "TopIcons Plus" and "KStatusNotifierItem/AppIndicator" would fix a lot of your system tray gripes. (Upgrade issues with extensions notwithstanding.)

    I got back on the Gnome train around 3.14 and I just don't feel the need to switch. I've had my fair share of issues, but I just don't get the hate Gnome engenders in people. Gnome really isn't targeted at me as more of a power user, but it's relatively consistent, attractive, and gets out of the way.

    My main complaints are the dumb as rocks file manager (easily replaced with Nemo), and the breakage of extensions on upgrades (I do use about 20 of them, e.g. Volume Mixer, Dash to Panel, Clipboard Indicator, cpufreq, Freon, Screenshot Tool, etc.). Said breakage is minimized by delaying upgrades on my Arch boxes and sticking to well maintained extensions.
    Like I said before, I don't like using plugins with my desktop because when the desktop updates and my used plugins don't, it doesn't always go smoothly. I'd prefer not having to pin my entire desktop suite or delay updating my system over a few plugins. IMHO, it's also annoying if you don't know what plugins are well maintained or not so you have to read assloads of changelogs, check commit histories, etc. I consider that to be too much BS for a system tray and a start menu...things a major desktop environment should support and include by default.

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    • #42
      My biggest complaints about GNOME:
      1. It's ugly. At least compared to KDE, macOS or even Windows. Adwaita theme and default font settings are pure shit. CSD is horrible mess.
      2. Very poor hidpi support, no fractional scale, looks either too small or too big on modern displays, totally unusable. Wayland doesn't work yet (for daily serious work) and I am not really sure will ever work.
      3. Unusable out of the box. Non-tech users are just blown away how shitty it looks and behaves without doing some 'tweaks' or installing extensions. Modern DE is supposed to be user-friendly and beautiful without the need to do some tricks.
      4. Ridiculous default workflow with workspaces and lack of minimize buttons, I mean really, who in their sane mind would ever use that.
      5. Lack of customization options. Keep removing them, yeah.
      6. Dependencies on 3rd party buggy unmaintained extensions just to provide a bare usability level.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

        That and the lack of a system tray are my issues with Gnome.
        Why punish yourself? The system tray was a bad design when Microsoft invented/popularized it and it's bad now. You don't need it. Reading a list is harder than looking at pictures of the app you want. go up right to Activities and boom done. Microsoft knows this too that is why Windows 10 does a hybrid approach where it shows you a thumbnail on hover, but it's still bad because its icon positions slide around. (Icons should always be in the same place unless moved by the user, looking at you Mac OS X, the dock sucks at that.)
        Last edited by k1e0x; 03-15-2019, 04:49 PM.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by k1e0x View Post

          Why punish yourself? The system tray was a bad design when Microsoft invented/popularized it and it's bad now. You don't need it. Reading a list is harder than looking at pictures of the app you want. go up right to Activities and boom done. Microsoft knows this too that is why Windows 10 does a hybrid approach where it shows you a thumbnail on hover, but it's still bad because its icon positions slide around. (Icons should always be in the same place unless moved by the user, looking at you Mac OS X, the dock sucks at that.)
          I find the tray useful for system notifications, text messaging, clipboards, and more. It isn't something I want to get rid of.

          As far as "go up right to Activities", that doesn't work for me. A lot of the time I have a video on one part of my screen, a web browser in another, and I prefer dropping down a terminal or "going through the list of crap" to launch stuff. I tend to use my desktop in a semi-tiled state and going in and out of Activities is just jarring to me. It didn't bother me when I used a 15" monitor and really only used one or two programs at a time side-by-side ; it just doesn't work on a 49" TV with a bunch of screen space better suited towards multitasking.

          What I find funny is that I set the bottom left corner in Plasma to activate the start menu so I don't have to actually click it...just go to the corner and go to my program...exactly what y'all Gnome users do, only my programs are in an organized list that doesn't go full screen...

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          • #45
            Originally posted by k1e0x View Post
            Why punish yourself? The system tray was a bad design when Microsoft invented/popularized it and it's bad now. You don't need it. Reading a list is harder than looking at pictures of the app you want. go up right to Activities and boom done. Microsoft knows this too that is why Windows 10 does a hybrid approach where it shows you a thumbnail on hover, but it's still bad because its icon positions slide around. (Icons should always be in the same place unless moved by the user, looking at you Mac OS X, the dock sucks at that.)
            ^ This right here is why GNOME 3 is trash. Rather than supporting existing familiar workflows, GNOME 3 demands that users bend to its will. "Here's why you're wrong, I will force you to work differently!" Yeah... no thanks... not ever. A desktop environment should help you get work done. Not lecture you on why you're doing it wrong.
            Last edited by torsionbar28; 03-16-2019, 10:51 PM.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by dremon_nl View Post
              My biggest complaints about GNOME:
              1. It's ugly. At least compared to KDE, macOS or even Windows. Adwaita theme and default font settings are pure shit. CSD is horrible mess.
              That's subjective. I for one like the clean uncluttered look. KDE is IMHO plain hideous, so is Windows. MacOS is ok, but it has been imitated to death and I really want Linux to have its own visual identity - and I really mean an identity, not here is a "choice" between a zillion crappy themes.

              Originally posted by dremon_nl View Post
              2. Very poor hidpi support, no fractional scale, looks either too small or too big on modern displays, totally unusable. Wayland doesn't work yet (for daily serious work) and I am not really sure will ever work.
              I use Wayland for daily serious work, not only it works perfectly for me, it works better than X11 ever did - HiDPI support, for example. What is your workflow in which Wayland doesn't work?

              Originally posted by dremon_nl View Post
              3. Unusable out of the box. Non-tech users are just blown away how shitty it looks and behaves without doing some 'tweaks' or installing extensions. Modern DE is supposed to be user-friendly and beautiful without the need to do some tricks.
              Looks debate aside, i 100% agree. The idea of having to use extensions for the most basic features such as maximise/minimise buttons, an applications menu or even having an actual desktop where you can place icons, that's simply brain dead.

              Originally posted by dremon_nl View Post
              4. Ridiculous default workflow with workspaces and lack of minimize buttons, I mean really, who in their sane mind would ever use that.
              5. Lack of customization options. Keep removing them, yeah.
              6. Dependencies on 3rd party buggy unmaintained extensions just to provide a bare usability level.
              As above. The extension system itself is badly designed: having everything hook into the main UI thread is utterly moronic. Plus the idea that you are not supposed to expect to be able to resize windows, use the desktop etc.... I'm using a computer, dammit, not some sort of giant mobile phone!

              Regarding customisation, I think that less is often more. MacOS is not exactly very customisable either and although the Apple UI sucks in many ways (yes, it really does), I don't hear Mac people obsessing about being able to resize the OK button, put it into another window and turn it into a scrollbar (as De Icanza once put it). Let me change my desktop background, switch between light and dark and it will be just fine; invest developer time into improving performance and chasing bugs.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by Niarbeht View Post
                So which is it? Is it that it doesn't let you do things with a keyboard, or is it that it doesn't have the mouse-driven interface you want?
                I use mouse the least possible, thus not being a command line zealot. I simply shortcut all the time, even inside programs (for example to export a PDF in Libreoffice Calc I press Alt to bring menu, then F for File and E for Export as PDF), I use underlined shortcuts a lot.

                Originally posted by Niarbeht View Post
                As a sidenote, when I want to launch a program in Gnome 3, I tap that key between ctrl and alt and I type part of the name of the program and I smack enter, and there's the program. [...] Move a window to the next screen down? [...] I know it exists [...]
                Yeah, I use my computers like this for like 10 years.

                Are you sure the problem is Gnome 3 and not a user's unwillingness to learn a new system? Us IT folks should know all about users being unwilling to adapt to new systems and processes.
                It's true that a lot of users are unwilling to adapt to new systems/processes, but I don't think it's the case, as G3 has been progressively dumbed down since 2012. It's very weak out of the box, there's no customisation, it has no shortcut in window menu, the dock/panel customisation is nearly non-existent and so on.

                Originally posted by k1e0x View Post
                The reason they do [...]mostly because it's easier to push a mouse than it is to pull it. [...]

                And almost everyone has moved away from "task listing" into full pics of the app window. [...]
                Can you please elaborate what you mean by mouse push/pull and task listing?

                Originally posted by k1e0x View Post
                Why punish yourself? The system tray was a bad design when Microsoft invented/popularized it and it's bad now. You don't need it.[...]
                In my opinion, absolutely not: it's useful for notifications from programs/clients with status change/update, like chats, emails, backup, torrent and so on.
                Android and iOS have notification bar, where new messages/emails/etc appears and stay there, it's a similar thing to an icon tray.

                According to GNOME team I need to keep up Telegram, IRC, torrent, etc all opened, clogging up desktop with windows for nothing. Oh yeah, I may iconise them buuuut...they removed the icon button and even if they didn't, I'd have 5 unnecessary icons cloggin up space in the upper panel and during app switching via Alt + Tab.


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                • #48
                  I just tested gnome 3.32 on archlinux on my laptop and I notice that it is still very heavy in the use of CPU resources.
                  It still seems much more responsive than before.
                  I find the interface quite good overall but I don't understand why you have to add this kind of extension to see the applications in the background https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/1031/topicons/ ... This should have been integrated by default long ago.....

                  After more than 12 years under Linux.... There is no longer any desktop environment that really suits me.
                  I really liked xfce but the development is slow and modernization takes time. It's such a shame.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Buntolo View Post

                    I use mouse the least possible, thus not being a command line zealot. I simply shortcut all the time, even inside programs (for example to export a PDF in Libreoffice Calc I press Alt to bring menu, then F for File and E for Export as PDF), I use underlined shortcuts a lot.



                    Yeah, I use my computers like this for like 10 years.



                    It's true that a lot of users are unwilling to adapt to new systems/processes, but I don't think it's the case, as G3 has been progressively dumbed down since 2012. It's very weak out of the box, there's no customisation, it has no shortcut in window menu, the dock/panel customisation is nearly non-existent and so on.



                    Can you please elaborate what you mean by mouse push/pull and task listing?



                    In my opinion, absolutely not: it's useful for notifications from programs/clients with status change/update, like chats, emails, backup, torrent and so on.
                    Android and iOS have notification bar, where new messages/emails/etc appears and stay there, it's a similar thing to an icon tray.

                    According to GNOME team I need to keep up Telegram, IRC, torrent, etc all opened, clogging up desktop with windows for nothing. Oh yeah, I may iconise them buuuut...they removed the icon button and even if they didn't, I'd have 5 unnecessary icons cloggin up space in the upper panel and during app switching via Alt + Tab.

                    A taskbar listing is like Windows 95.
                    Internet Explorer || File Manager || Real Player || Winzip

                    Most UI's have moved away from that model.. with the exception of Mate, Cinnamon and XFCE. (Windows 10 and KDE are hybrids) (including Phone OS's as they are important ot UI design) Today most use thumbnail images or expose like style.

                    Push pull with the mouse is simple. Pull the mouse towards you to the bottom of the screen and pay attention to your wrist as you do. as you pull into your wrist you'll notice tension. Now push it away to the top. You'll notice you can just extend your fingers to access that area. That means more frequent areas of the screen you use should be at the top. The sides and corners are also valuable real estate because they can be accessed by large sweeping movements, where as finding a small section in the middle of the screen uses fine motions.

                    Maybe take the Gnome Challenge.. use it for a week or two maybe with or without extensions to force yourself to learn hotkeys and motions.. it's def not a bad way to work.. but it is different. You have to be bold to do something different.. and a lot of ppl will be upset by it.. but if you want to move forward with your design.. Microsoft was unwilling to take that risk, Gnome was.




                    Last edited by k1e0x; 03-18-2019, 09:06 PM.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by k1e0x View Post
                      A taskbar listing is like Windows 95.
                      Internet Explorer || File Manager || Real Player || Winzip

                      Most UI's have moved away from that model.. with the exception of Mate, Cinnamon and XFCE. (Windows 10 and KDE are hybrids) (including Phone OS's as they are important ot UI design) Today most use thumbnail images or expose like style.
                      I swear I didn't understand yet what this taskbar listing is, as in my 7 years of Xfce I think I've never seen it.

                      The push/pull thing is why I've moved bottom panel in Xfce to the left side.

                      Maybe take the Gnome Challenge.. use it for a week or two maybe with or without extensions to force yourself to learn hotkeys and motions.. it's def not a bad way to work.. but it is different. You have to be bold to do something different.. and a lot of ppl will be upset by it.. but if you want to move forward with your design.. Microsoft was unwilling to take that risk, Gnome was.
                      I've GNOME 3 on my desktop PC (gaming/Netflix/stuff) for like 2 years, I've kept it as bare as possible, with just tweak tool or whatever it's called, no theme, no customisation whatsoever. It's still pure dumbness to me and keep being dumbed down at every new release.

                      As it is out of the box you can't basically do anything well without a mouse, and even with a mouse it's still stupid: how the fsck I'm supposed to use chat/torrent/whatever without tray icon? Do they want me to keep a messy desktop? I feel it's like Windows again, with just a bunch of overlapping windows randomly thrown on the screen. The default automatic new window placement of GNOME 3 is just pure crap, especially compared to Xfce one (Xfce can behave in a hybrid tiling way with minimal effort, which is how I use it).

                      Maybe using various extensions G3 get really good, but I've been burned pretty bad in the past with all the extension breaking due to a missing valid API. Also I'm not a student anymore (way less free time) and I don't want to spend too much time customising the hell out, I don't even change default wallpaper for like 5 years.

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