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The Faster & More Beautiful GNOME 3.32 Has Been Released

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  • #41
    Originally posted by uid313 View Post
    No, not a lot but every time you do it goes fullscreen and whatever you were looking at disappears, so it causes a context switch in your brain.
    Windows 8 also had this fullscreen start menu screen, but it was so hated they brought back the start menu in Windows 10.
    For me, the menu is open so briefly that it doesn't really count as a context switch... it's just a few keystrokes, so while I'm vaguely aware that the screen briefly flickered onto something else, it doesn't really register enough to be a distraction.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

      That and the lack of a system tray are my issues with Gnome..
      I'd bet a combination of the extensions "TopIcons Plus" and "KStatusNotifierItem/AppIndicator" would fix a lot of your system tray gripes. (Upgrade issues with extensions notwithstanding.)

      I got back on the Gnome train around 3.14 and I just don't feel the need to switch. I've had my fair share of issues, but I just don't get the hate Gnome engenders in people. Gnome really isn't targeted at me as more of a power user, but it's relatively consistent, attractive, and gets out of the way.

      My main complaints are the dumb as rocks file manager (easily replaced with Nemo), and the breakage of extensions on upgrades (I do use about 20 of them, e.g. Volume Mixer, Dash to Panel, Clipboard Indicator, cpufreq, Freon, Screenshot Tool, etc.). Said breakage is minimized by delaying upgrades on my Arch boxes and sticking to well maintained extensions.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by nranger View Post

        I'd bet a combination of the extensions "TopIcons Plus" and "KStatusNotifierItem/AppIndicator" would fix a lot of your system tray gripes. (Upgrade issues with extensions notwithstanding.)

        I got back on the Gnome train around 3.14 and I just don't feel the need to switch. I've had my fair share of issues, but I just don't get the hate Gnome engenders in people. Gnome really isn't targeted at me as more of a power user, but it's relatively consistent, attractive, and gets out of the way.

        My main complaints are the dumb as rocks file manager (easily replaced with Nemo), and the breakage of extensions on upgrades (I do use about 20 of them, e.g. Volume Mixer, Dash to Panel, Clipboard Indicator, cpufreq, Freon, Screenshot Tool, etc.). Said breakage is minimized by delaying upgrades on my Arch boxes and sticking to well maintained extensions.
        Just using KStatusNotifierItem works for me, TopIcons Plus tends to be the cause of a lot of slow down/crashes.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by nranger View Post

          I'd bet a combination of the extensions "TopIcons Plus" and "KStatusNotifierItem/AppIndicator" would fix a lot of your system tray gripes. (Upgrade issues with extensions notwithstanding.)

          I got back on the Gnome train around 3.14 and I just don't feel the need to switch. I've had my fair share of issues, but I just don't get the hate Gnome engenders in people. Gnome really isn't targeted at me as more of a power user, but it's relatively consistent, attractive, and gets out of the way.

          My main complaints are the dumb as rocks file manager (easily replaced with Nemo), and the breakage of extensions on upgrades (I do use about 20 of them, e.g. Volume Mixer, Dash to Panel, Clipboard Indicator, cpufreq, Freon, Screenshot Tool, etc.). Said breakage is minimized by delaying upgrades on my Arch boxes and sticking to well maintained extensions.
          Like I said before, I don't like using plugins with my desktop because when the desktop updates and my used plugins don't, it doesn't always go smoothly. I'd prefer not having to pin my entire desktop suite or delay updating my system over a few plugins. IMHO, it's also annoying if you don't know what plugins are well maintained or not so you have to read assloads of changelogs, check commit histories, etc. I consider that to be too much BS for a system tray and a start menu...things a major desktop environment should support and include by default.

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          • #45
            My biggest complaints about GNOME:
            1. It's ugly. At least compared to KDE, macOS or even Windows. Adwaita theme and default font settings are pure shit. CSD is horrible mess.
            2. Very poor hidpi support, no fractional scale, looks either too small or too big on modern displays, totally unusable. Wayland doesn't work yet (for daily serious work) and I am not really sure will ever work.
            3. Unusable out of the box. Non-tech users are just blown away how shitty it looks and behaves without doing some 'tweaks' or installing extensions. Modern DE is supposed to be user-friendly and beautiful without the need to do some tricks.
            4. Ridiculous default workflow with workspaces and lack of minimize buttons, I mean really, who in their sane mind would ever use that.
            5. Lack of customization options. Keep removing them, yeah.
            6. Dependencies on 3rd party buggy unmaintained extensions just to provide a bare usability level.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

              That and the lack of a system tray are my issues with Gnome.
              Why punish yourself? The system tray was a bad design when Microsoft invented/popularized it and it's bad now. You don't need it. Reading a list is harder than looking at pictures of the app you want. go up right to Activities and boom done. Microsoft knows this too that is why Windows 10 does a hybrid approach where it shows you a thumbnail on hover, but it's still bad because its icon positions slide around. (Icons should always be in the same place unless moved by the user, looking at you Mac OS X, the dock sucks at that.)
              Last edited by k1e0x; 03-15-2019, 04:49 PM.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by k1e0x View Post

                Why punish yourself? The system tray was a bad design when Microsoft invented/popularized it and it's bad now. You don't need it. Reading a list is harder than looking at pictures of the app you want. go up right to Activities and boom done. Microsoft knows this too that is why Windows 10 does a hybrid approach where it shows you a thumbnail on hover, but it's still bad because its icon positions slide around. (Icons should always be in the same place unless moved by the user, looking at you Mac OS X, the dock sucks at that.)
                I find the tray useful for system notifications, text messaging, clipboards, and more. It isn't something I want to get rid of.

                As far as "go up right to Activities", that doesn't work for me. A lot of the time I have a video on one part of my screen, a web browser in another, and I prefer dropping down a terminal or "going through the list of crap" to launch stuff. I tend to use my desktop in a semi-tiled state and going in and out of Activities is just jarring to me. It didn't bother me when I used a 15" monitor and really only used one or two programs at a time side-by-side ; it just doesn't work on a 49" TV with a bunch of screen space better suited towards multitasking.

                What I find funny is that I set the bottom left corner in Plasma to activate the start menu so I don't have to actually click it...just go to the corner and go to my program...exactly what y'all Gnome users do, only my programs are in an organized list that doesn't go full screen...

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by k1e0x View Post
                  Why punish yourself? The system tray was a bad design when Microsoft invented/popularized it and it's bad now. You don't need it. Reading a list is harder than looking at pictures of the app you want. go up right to Activities and boom done. Microsoft knows this too that is why Windows 10 does a hybrid approach where it shows you a thumbnail on hover, but it's still bad because its icon positions slide around. (Icons should always be in the same place unless moved by the user, looking at you Mac OS X, the dock sucks at that.)
                  ^ This right here is why GNOME 3 is trash. Rather than supporting existing familiar workflows, GNOME 3 demands that users bend to its will. "Here's why you're wrong, I will force you to work differently!" Yeah... no thanks... not ever. A desktop environment should help you get work done. Not lecture you on why you're doing it wrong.
                  Last edited by torsionbar28; 03-16-2019, 10:51 PM.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by dremon_nl View Post
                    My biggest complaints about GNOME:
                    1. It's ugly. At least compared to KDE, macOS or even Windows. Adwaita theme and default font settings are pure shit. CSD is horrible mess.
                    That's subjective. I for one like the clean uncluttered look. KDE is IMHO plain hideous, so is Windows. MacOS is ok, but it has been imitated to death and I really want Linux to have its own visual identity - and I really mean an identity, not here is a "choice" between a zillion crappy themes.

                    Originally posted by dremon_nl View Post
                    2. Very poor hidpi support, no fractional scale, looks either too small or too big on modern displays, totally unusable. Wayland doesn't work yet (for daily serious work) and I am not really sure will ever work.
                    I use Wayland for daily serious work, not only it works perfectly for me, it works better than X11 ever did - HiDPI support, for example. What is your workflow in which Wayland doesn't work?

                    Originally posted by dremon_nl View Post
                    3. Unusable out of the box. Non-tech users are just blown away how shitty it looks and behaves without doing some 'tweaks' or installing extensions. Modern DE is supposed to be user-friendly and beautiful without the need to do some tricks.
                    Looks debate aside, i 100% agree. The idea of having to use extensions for the most basic features such as maximise/minimise buttons, an applications menu or even having an actual desktop where you can place icons, that's simply brain dead.

                    Originally posted by dremon_nl View Post
                    4. Ridiculous default workflow with workspaces and lack of minimize buttons, I mean really, who in their sane mind would ever use that.
                    5. Lack of customization options. Keep removing them, yeah.
                    6. Dependencies on 3rd party buggy unmaintained extensions just to provide a bare usability level.
                    As above. The extension system itself is badly designed: having everything hook into the main UI thread is utterly moronic. Plus the idea that you are not supposed to expect to be able to resize windows, use the desktop etc.... I'm using a computer, dammit, not some sort of giant mobile phone!

                    Regarding customisation, I think that less is often more. MacOS is not exactly very customisable either and although the Apple UI sucks in many ways (yes, it really does), I don't hear Mac people obsessing about being able to resize the OK button, put it into another window and turn it into a scrollbar (as De Icanza once put it). Let me change my desktop background, switch between light and dark and it will be just fine; invest developer time into improving performance and chasing bugs.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Niarbeht View Post
                      So which is it? Is it that it doesn't let you do things with a keyboard, or is it that it doesn't have the mouse-driven interface you want?
                      I use mouse the least possible, thus not being a command line zealot. I simply shortcut all the time, even inside programs (for example to export a PDF in Libreoffice Calc I press Alt to bring menu, then F for File and E for Export as PDF), I use underlined shortcuts a lot.

                      Originally posted by Niarbeht View Post
                      As a sidenote, when I want to launch a program in Gnome 3, I tap that key between ctrl and alt and I type part of the name of the program and I smack enter, and there's the program. [...] Move a window to the next screen down? [...] I know it exists [...]
                      Yeah, I use my computers like this for like 10 years.

                      Are you sure the problem is Gnome 3 and not a user's unwillingness to learn a new system? Us IT folks should know all about users being unwilling to adapt to new systems and processes.
                      It's true that a lot of users are unwilling to adapt to new systems/processes, but I don't think it's the case, as G3 has been progressively dumbed down since 2012. It's very weak out of the box, there's no customisation, it has no shortcut in window menu, the dock/panel customisation is nearly non-existent and so on.

                      Originally posted by k1e0x View Post
                      The reason they do [...]mostly because it's easier to push a mouse than it is to pull it. [...]

                      And almost everyone has moved away from "task listing" into full pics of the app window. [...]
                      Can you please elaborate what you mean by mouse push/pull and task listing?

                      Originally posted by k1e0x View Post
                      Why punish yourself? The system tray was a bad design when Microsoft invented/popularized it and it's bad now. You don't need it.[...]
                      In my opinion, absolutely not: it's useful for notifications from programs/clients with status change/update, like chats, emails, backup, torrent and so on.
                      Android and iOS have notification bar, where new messages/emails/etc appears and stay there, it's a similar thing to an icon tray.

                      According to GNOME team I need to keep up Telegram, IRC, torrent, etc all opened, clogging up desktop with windows for nothing. Oh yeah, I may iconise them buuuut...they removed the icon button and even if they didn't, I'd have 5 unnecessary icons cloggin up space in the upper panel and during app switching via Alt + Tab.


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