KDE's Kate Picks Up New Features, KWin Crash Fix When Launching Games

[rene]

well, now that i am not on the smartphone real numbers so that everyone sees what bullshit you are talking by not distinct between a multi platform source tarball with docs, build-stuff and so on and the actual binaries and pretending the Linux kernel is only a few MB large is the most stupid thing i ever heard hen you point at your xz-compressed binary and compare that to the QT sources

and there is another point; the kernel don't need to draw a GUI and hence has no need for a ton of big stuff used in QT

and before you spread bullshit again about sizes: that are the unpacked, installed package sizes not compareable to a xz-compressed kernel image where most of the stuff isn't even part of that images because built as module and living below /lib/modules

[root@localhost:~]$ dnf --disablerepo=\* info qt5\* | grep Size
Size : 9.2 M
Size : 76
…

Well, soo little bloat it requires more then 10GB tmpfs to compile Qt, and with 12 threads out of a 16 thread AMD Ryzen 2700 (8 cores) w/ 32GB of RAM Qt compiles for over 30 minutes, … and that apparently might not even yet have included webkit, ..! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGhTPHpnIgc

[Luke_Wolf]

Well, soo little bloat it requires more then 10GB tmpfs to compile Qt, and with 12 threads out of a 16 thread AMD Ryzen 2700 (8 cores) w/ 32GB of RAM Qt compiles for over 30 minutes, … and that apparently might not even yet have included webkit, ..! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGhTPHpnIgc

You have a very peculiar definition of bloat. QtWebEngine/QtWebKit should be separated out I agree... what it's relying upon frankly moves too fast. However bloat is an ill defined run time characteristic not a compile time characteristic. Qt as a platform framework is almost 2MLOC of C++... of course it's going to take a long time to compile however that says nothing about the performance characteristics of the end product. Consider this... If I have two programs of similar but large size, one written in Python the other written in C++, I can run the Python program immediately whereas I have to wait a while to run the C++ program, does that mean that the C++ program is more bloated than the Python program? Of course not, but the reverse is probably true.

[rene]

You have a very peculiar definition of bloat. QtWebEngine/QtWebKit should be separated out I agree... what it's relying upon frankly moves too fast. However bloat is an ill defined run time characteristic not a compile time characteristic. Qt as a platform framework is almost 2MLOC of C++... of course it's going to take a long time to compile however that says nothing about the performance characteristics of the end product. Consider this... If I have two programs of similar but large size, one written in Python the other written in C++, I can run the Python program immediately whereas I have to wait a while to run the C++ program, does that mean that the C++ program is more bloated than the Python program? Of course not, but the reverse is probably true.

I did not bring python into the bloat game here. Since when is building over 10 GB of built artefacts (object files and what not) not bloated? The source download is the size of a whole operating system, and the installed size also in the range of over 100 MB. For just one gui toolkit. And this apparently did not yet even include their WebKit flavour as far as I could see on a first glance, ..! PS: as you are so passionate about this, you could let us know which is the right webkit to build for what konqueror wants to build and function, ..?

[Luke_Wolf]

I did not bring python into the bloat game here. Since when is building over 10 GB of built artefacts (object files and what not) not bloated? The source download is the size of a whole operating system, and the installed size also in the range of over 100 MB. For just one gui toolkit. And this apparently did not yet even include their WebKit flavour as far as I could see on a first glance, ..! PS: as you are so passionate about this, you could let us know which is the right webkit to build for what konqueror wants to build and function, ..?

Again Compile Time Statistics are never bloat. Run Time Statistics are arbitrarily considered bloat or not. It could take a year to build with a terrabyte of RAM and 10 TB of scratch space, and that would not be bloat. That was the point of the Python example. Qt is also not just a GUI toolkit... how many times do I have to repeat myself? It's a Platform Framework. It is equivalent in scope and nature to the .NET BCL or the Java JCL. Its goal is that you write once and can compile and run your applications anywhere, which requires a lot more than a GUI toolkit if you want to do anything advanced.

As to enabling QtWebkit... have you considered reading the documentation? https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/configure-options.html

[rene]

Again Compile Time Statistics are never bloat. Run Time Statistics are arbitrarily considered bloat or not. It could take a year to build with a terrabyte of RAM and 10 TB of scratch space, and that would not be bloat. That was the point of the Python example. Qt is also not just a GUI toolkit... how many times do I have to repeat myself? It's a Platform Framework. It is equivalent in scope and nature to the .NET BCL or the Java JCL. Its goal is that you write once and can compile and run your applications anywhere, which requires a lot more than a GUI toolkit if you want to do anything advanced.

As to enabling QtWebkit... have you considered reading the documentation? https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/configure-options.html

According to my browser, the linked page you provided does not include a reference to webkit. Additionally that was not my question. I specifically asked "you could let us know which is the right webkit to build for what konqueror wants to build and function, ..?" As there is a lot of "webkit" stuff and kde modules out there, and I wanted to know if konquerer is supposed to use the Qt5 one, another freestanding, or a specially blessed ode package kde-whatever-kpart-webkit one. Yes I tried to RTFM; but honestly that is mostly "bloated" labyrinth mess, ..! :-/

[Luke_Wolf]

According to my browser, the linked page you provided does not include a reference to webkit. Additionally that was not my question. I specifically asked "you could let us know which is the right webkit to build for what konqueror wants to build and function, ..?" As there is a lot of "webkit" stuff and kde modules out there, and I wanted to know if konquerer is supposed to use the Qt5 one, another freestanding, or a specially blessed ode package kde-whatever-kpart-webkit one. Yes I tried to RTFM; but honestly that is mostly "bloated" labyrinth mess, ..! :-/

I don't use Konqueror but it's built upon the KParts system and the important one for WebKit is/was KWebKitPart.

If you insist on compiling things might I suggest you use Gentoo instead? If this t2sde is designed around manual dependency resolution as the problem you're having implies it's going to be a total clusterfuck to manage.

[rene]

I don't use Konqueror but it's built upon the KParts system and the important one for WebKit is/was KWebKitPart.

If you insist on compiling things might I suggest you use Gentoo instead? If this t2sde is designed around manual dependency resolution as the problem you're having implies it's going to be a total clusterfuck to manage.

t2 is not designed around manual dependency resolution, but someone has to the unlucky one to update this amazing not-bloat for the first time, ... PS: you still have not specified which flavour of WebKit, weather Qt bundled or another one though, ..! ;-)

[Luke_Wolf]

t2 is not designed around manual dependency resolution, but someone has to the unlucky one to update this amazing not-bloat for the first time, ... PS: you still have not specified which flavour of WebKit, weather Qt bundled or another one though, ..! ;-)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ If it's the Qt bundled one then that was deprecated in 5.6 and everything is supposed to use QWebEngine now, however nobody may have cared enough to update Konqueror, so it may still require 5.6 for that KPart. I don't know. I don't use it. It's not my software. You're going to have to crib off another distribution's build system or go ask the maintainer... assuming it still has one. I'm pretty sure it like Kopete is an orphan now though.

[caligula]

Sorry it's not the 80s anymore, we've been past "auditable software" for quite a few years, now we've got to rely upon Linus's Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus%27s_Law . Code in the MLOC order or even the 100s of KLOC orders cannot be understood by any single person. Furthermore the size of executables nowadays is a rounding error compared to the content that they're loading. Just to use an example: Dishonored 2, the actual executable 40MB... the entire game folder? 42GB

It just puzzles me that these days, more often there may not be any correlation between size of the executable and the functionality that it provides. I know Qt is a very powerful toolkit that includes everything and a kitchen sink, but nevertheless, this was just a general observation. It's also a funny feature that people often become seriously offended if you mention this.