KDE To Support Matrix Decentralized Instant Messaging

[brent]

Tbh, there's no technical reason XMPP messages cannot be directly translated to JSON/BSON/protobuf. And the long lived HTTP connection can be turned into an web socket. Thus the protocol could be more modern and efficient.
Of course, proper governance and stewardship of XEPs would still be required.

At the moment there, are *over 400 XEPs* (at various stages like "deprecated", "experimental" or even "retracted"). I don't think adding more complexity and more XEPs is going to solve XMPP's problems. It's not entirely clear what you should and need to support if you are writing a client. Interaction between XEPs isn't always specified. It's a huge mess and I don't think it is salvageable at this point.

[bug77]

At the moment there, are *over 400 XEPs* (at various stages like "deprecated", "experimental" or even "retracted"). I don't think adding more complexity and more XEPs is going to solve XMPP's problems. It's not entirely clear what you should and need to support if you are writing a client. Interaction between XEPs isn't always specified. It's a huge mess and I don't think it is salvageable at this point.

That's what I meant by "proper governance" - XEPs cannot be left in limbo for years.
However, for what you need to support, I think that's rather well documented: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0387.html
And XEPs, like plugins in general, should be independent of each other. If you start defining interaction between them, you're going to get a real mess on your hands.

I agree with you that people have probably moved on at this point so no one is going to save XMPP. I was just saying, strictly from a technical point of view, it is salvageable.

[paupav]

It's not the only one in its kind, though. Delta Chat is a more popular direct competitor to this.

No audio and video calls?

Yeah, IM is hard - because for it to be effective you need not only like and use it, but it also needs to be somewhat popular to have friends, colleagues, etc. jump on the bandwagon. The only application I've been able to find that foots that bill is Telegram. It has a native client for just about every known platform - including Linux - and the Linux client is GPLv3.

I'll definitely look into matrix, but I'm not optimistic that it will reach any type of critical mass which would make it a true competitor in the already crowded IM space. The best solution for the Linux community right now for a mainstream IM client is Telegram.

P.S. Just did a quick look into matrix and found that it's desktop client for Linux is electron based - which means it's basically just a chromium web page. The Telegram client is Qt based - which again points to Telegram's commitment to provide a native client for every platform. Apparently, Matrix not so much.

Matrix is protocol meaning, you can change Matrix client the same way you can change different email clients. You can try Fractal which is Gtk+ matrix client. Also why would you get KGB backed messaging app.

[gbcox]

No audio and video calls?



Matrix is protocol meaning, you can change Matrix client the same way you can change different email clients. You can try Fractal which is Gtk+ matrix client. Also why would you get KGB backed messaging app.

I'm keeping an open mind about Matrix - but as I mentioned before when it comes to IM you have to take into consideration what your friends and colleagues use - and at this point it's pretty much a non-starter. Telegram remains the best compromise for Linux - it is a GPLv3 based client and has a relatively large user base.

As far as the KGB is concerned - you're misinformed. Telegram has nothing to do with Russia - quite to the contrary, it's banned in Russia due to the fact that Telegram refused to hand over it's encryption keys.

[DJViking]

We are using Matrix and Riot for instant messaging. If this means we can use a different client than Riot, then I think this will be a good improvement for KDE.

[paupav]

I'm keeping an open mind about Matrix - but as I mentioned before when it comes to IM you have to take into consideration what your friends and colleagues use - and at this point it's pretty much a non-starter. Telegram remains the best compromise for Linux - it is a GPLv3 based client and has a relatively large user base.

As far as the KGB is concerned - you're misinformed. Telegram has nothing to do with Russia - quite to the contrary, it's banned in Russia due to the fact that Telegram refused to hand over it's encryption keys.

If your colleagues are KGB agents, then maybe it is ok to use telegram, but for everyone else Telegram is non-starter due to still small user base.
If your colleagues are from open source communities such as KDE and Gnome then you should use Matrix.

[gbcox]

If your colleagues are KGB agents, then maybe it is ok to use telegram, but for everyone else Telegram is non-starter due to still small user base.
If your colleagues are from open source communities such as KDE and Gnome then you should use Matrix.

I've never quite understood why people post nonsense in forums. It is easily dis-proven by a quick google search, not amusing and really distracts from any serious debate. Kind of sad actually....

[Vistaus]

No audio and video calls?

There's a component for Delta that allows that.

[dfyt]

If your colleagues are KGB agents, then maybe it is ok to use telegram, but for everyone else Telegram is non-starter due to still small user base.
If your colleagues are from open source communities such as KDE and Gnome then you should use Matrix.

With that attitude Telegram will never grow. What do you use WhatsApp? The app owned by Facebook? Yes 100 000 000 users is small compared to WhatsApp but vs others? The mere fact my number is hidden from groups and groups AUTO MUTE. Groups can also be put PROPERLY to silent not like WhatsApp in your face half baked mute. What WhatsApp is to SMS is what Telegram is to WhatsApp. Heck travelling through Africa, I couldn't even send SMS's yet my Telegrams when through. WhatsApp good luck with EDGE...

[paupav]

With that attitude Telegram will never grow. What do you use WhatsApp? The app owned by Facebook? Yes 100 000 000 users is small compared to WhatsApp but vs others? The mere fact my number is hidden from groups and groups AUTO MUTE. Groups can also be put PROPERLY to silent not like WhatsApp in your face half baked mute. What WhatsApp is to SMS is what Telegram is to WhatsApp. Heck travelling through Africa, I couldn't even send SMS's yet my Telegrams when through. WhatsApp good luck with EDGE...

if we wanna talk about alternatives to matrix i believe viber is the best. cyprus based, japanese owned company. telegram is compromised in my opinion.