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  • #21
    Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
    I was not talking about the quality of the kernel or the default installed programs, which I believe they are actually higher quality that what Windows comes with.
    For the lower quality of Linux distros I mean that Windows 7 has:
    1. Good defaults like multi-monitor default behaviour which is "clone" I think instead of Linux extend to right or left which is pure guesswork and almost never guesses correctly.
    I had no problems with multi-monitor.

    Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
    2. Good window control buttons (minimize, maximize, close) design (big, rectangle shape, red color close) instead of small, round shape, and not and not always red close button.
    It depends on the desktop environment you're using. I'm typing this from Ubuntu MATE, and it has what you describe minus red. Incidentally, while many people dump on the GNOME 3 desktop environment for Linux, its recommended way to window close is Alt-F4 and its recommended way to window swap is Windows key + tab or hold Windows key and click. It's faster than using those corner buttons, once you get used to it.

    Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
    3. Partition letters, icons and free space progress bar instead of mount points like /media/my-username/partition-label/
    So Windows have very simple partition letters (very easy to type in commands or paths) and partiton name which can be naything easy to remember.
    I get the icons and free space in a pie chart. And the partition labels can be changed too, I just have to use the Disks tool to do it. And the mount points aren't awkward or lower quality, just different.

    Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
    4. Easy to configure audio output and input devices, where very easily can configure the number of channels like 2.0 or 5.1.
    I have that option in my control panel. I can switch from my RX480 which does audio over HDMI to my builtin sound card, and switch sound from 2.0 to 5.1. ?

    Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
    5. Control panel is very well organized with search result getting you to the right searched item instead of Linux distro finding results only one level deep.
    I half agree. The search feature in Windows 7 (and newer versions) is superb, and I have not had the same luck searching for things in Linux. I grant you that advantage. GNOME 3 and Unity, among other Linux desktops, have search and it will find documents and applications pretty well but not always the configuration setting you want. Score a big win here for Microsoft.

    On the other hand, the layout of Microsoft's control panels is definitely not organized. I have to go into one of the tabs on the System control panel to allow remote desktop? What? The File Explorer control panel doesn't let me control file associations? Come again? Etc... etc...

    Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
    6. Very easy to find a list of all installed programs with version, size, date of installation columns
    Many Linux distributions have this information but it's harder to access. However, the other aspects of installed program management is where Linux has Windows beat:

    * Install all your applications in one place, in a nice GUI. Firefox, Chrome, LibreOffice, VLC, Steam, Bittorrent, etc...
    * Update all your applications in one place.
    * Search for new applications in one place.

    You don't get any of that in Windows unless you use Chocolatey, and that's a command line program in PowerShell. I doubt even 0.5% of Windows users run it.

    Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
    7. Built in virtual keyboard which is very easy to find (open Start menu -> type first 3 letters from keyboard, e.g.: "key" and it appears) compared to Linux where it's either not installed or never can be found from the start menu typing the full "keyboard" or "virtual".
    I'm gonna stop here, because the list I think it can go up to 100 points where Windows 7 does it right, while Linux distros have reinvented it in a broken way that hurts intuitivity, usability and productivity.
    That's why I'm saying that Windows 7 has a higher quality compared to Linux distros.
    You have to search the web *once* and then you'll see that the default on screen keyboard for most Linux distributions is Onboard. I went to Applications menu -> Universal Access -> Onboard and launched it, and it worked fine. Yes, it's a usability goof that it's not tied into default search. But it's present, and it works, and it took two minutes to figure out.

    Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
    As for Windows update, I think everybody knows that Microsoft is so sleazy these days that they intentionally break older version of Windows to push people to their spyware flaghsip.
    As for updates, i never had a breaking OS update on windows, but I had it on Linux. So I think everyone has a different experience here.
    Actually, all the Windows Update goofs I describe are in Windows 10. I've had it break Windows 8.1, Windows 8, Windows 7, and Windows Vista too. So it's probably not a passive-aggressive way to push users to the newest version, it's just poor quality.

    So to be clear, we had different definitions of quality. You meant ease of use and simplicity of use for users, I meant reliability and stability. With ease of use and simplicity of use for users, I think you can make a case Windows has an edge, especially with search. But i don't think it's a large edge, not the hundreds of items you describe. And don't forget the ways Linux has advantages: faster software updates without removing access to the machine, finding all software you want to install and installing it and keeping it updated as part of your system software updates. Much faster install too, though most end users don't have to mess with that.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by Michael_S View Post
      In his defense, doing either of those things is a bit of a hassle for someone not accustomed to using the command line.
      So then what's he doing on Phoronix in the first place? I agree that it's a bit of a hassle for the Average Joe, but since you're defending HIM, I don't that's fair as being on Phoronix means he knows a thing or two about Linux.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
        1. Good defaults like multi-monitor default behaviour which is "clone" I think instead of Linux extend to right or left which is pure guesswork and almost never guesses correctly.
        This is situational. I almost never want to "clone" the screen, I need it to extend. That said as long as the system remembers my settings for a specific monitor (both Linux and Windows do) I'm fine with whatever as I only do the config once.

        2. Good window control buttons (minimize, maximize, close) design (big, rectangle shape, red color close) instead of small, round shape, and not and not always red close button.
        I'd say this is just that you don't like the default theme. You can easily change it.

        3. Partition letters, icons and free space progress bar instead of mount points like /media/my-username/partition-label/ So Windows have very simple partition letters (very easy to type in commands or paths) and partiton name which can be naything easy to remember.
        As long as your stuff is directly in C:\ anyway. Once you start having any software or any amount of subfolders with stuff it's not particularly different.

        4. Easy to configure audio output and input devices, where very easily can configure the number of channels like 2.0 or 5.1.
        Dunno, Plasma's audio thing in the tray works fine for that.

        5. Control panel is very well organized with search result getting you to the right searched item instead of Linux distro finding results only one level deep.
        Afaik the search in Plasma's settings will go more than one level deep.

        6. Very easy to find a list of all installed programs with version, size, date of installation columns
        Less useful on Linux as all applications are updated from the same source.

        7. Built in virtual keyboard which is very easy to find (open Start menu -> type first 3 letters from keyboard, e.g.: "key" and it appears) compared to Linux where it's either not installed or never can be found from the start menu typing the full "keyboard" or "virtual".
        What distro, what DE?
        Because here on OpenSUSE with Plasma it's there and easily accessible, with a button in the login screen, and is enabled automatically if no keyboard is detected.

        (while on Windows I had to activate it manually on my tablet)

        As for Windows update, I think everybody knows that Microsoft is so sleazy these days that they intentionally break older version of Windows to push people to their spyware flaghsip.
        Actually, they are hard at work breaking their spyware flagship. This is the second time the major October update is delayed by months because it breaks shit or deletes user data (sorry what? yes it does).

        I'm not aware of any significant instability ever caused by updates in Windows 7.

        As for updates, i never had a breaking OS update on windows, but I had it on Linux. So I think everyone has a different experience here.
        Linux is a kernel, distros deal with software and updates differently. You can't treat all distros as one. Especially if it is Ubuntu.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by Vistaus View Post

          So then what's he doing on Phoronix in the first place? I agree that it's a bit of a hassle for the Average Joe, but since you're defending HIM, I don't that's fair as being on Phoronix means he knows a thing or two about Linux.
          My goal is to help get everyone voluntarily and happily involved with open source / free software. You've got to approach people where they stand, not where you wish they stood.

          ....of course, it would be more useful if I was writing code than sitting around on forums. But I'm just here while I wait for long-running processes to finish on my work computer, and for better or worse I don't have the brainpower to switch focus from the corporate webapp I get paid to work on and free software stuff.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by Michael_S View Post

            My goal is to help get everyone voluntarily and happily involved with open source / free software. You've got to approach people where they stand, not where you wish they stood.
            I agree very much with this, but you ignored my question. He's on Phoronix, so he already *stands* on the more technical side.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by xiando View Post
              Running a Botnet Spyware TV with a proprietary Botnet Media Server is a really bad idea. A dedicated media player box with Gentoo is preferable.
              hi /g/
              Actually, I'm quite sure my TV isn't participating in a botnet. It's replaced my Arch Linux / Kodi setup, and it's functioning much better. More correctly, I can now actually play my media (UHD bluray mkv remuxes).

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